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  1. #31
    Master Untangler Chrismal's Avatar
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    Hi DIRK

    Nice to know that we are going to have fq_codel in 13.0 nice work., and also thank you for all the great info you provide us

  2. #32
    Untangler
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    Oh my....13.0! When can we test?

  3. #33
    Untangle Ninja Jim.Alles's Avatar
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    I will gladly trade Web Filter Lite for fq_codel.

    Thank you , Untangle!


  4. #34
    Untangle Junkie dmorris's Avatar
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    sneak peak of stuff coming in 13.0:
    https://wiki.untangle.com/index.php/Bufferbloat
    Jim.Alles likes this.
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  5. #35
    Master Untangler Chrismal's Avatar
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    Awesome can't wait for the alpha to test. UT keeps getting great features on every update
    Last edited by Chrismal; 03-22-2017 at 06:41 AM.

  6. #36
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    The bufferbloat stuff looks very cool!

    One thing I haven't seen anyone address yet (not just UT) is streaming services that scale bandwidth dynamically.

    The old argument is that it's okay (and even necessary) to give QoS priority to streaming services, because packets from those services are time sensitive, and giving them priority does not change overall bandwidth use or the total time to complete the transfer on a congested link. If you download a 2GB file and stream a 2GB Netflix movie while you wait, that's still 4GB total transfer, and it still takes about the same total amount of time for both to finish; the fact that letting some Netflix traffic come first means it will take longer for the file download to finish doesn't matter, because you were expecting the file download to take a while anyway. If you were also doing some random web browsing, the fact that you added maybe any extra 100ms to each page load while the https response waits in a queue for the prioritized Netflix traffic again is barely enough to even register.

    I'm not sure this holds true anymore. Today, most of the services targeted by QoS will dynamically adjust their bandwidth use. Give Netflix a better QoS rating, and it will respond by improving the quality of the picture, thus using more bandwidth. It's no longer the zero-sum situation that it used to be. Netflix, Youtube, Pandora, Skype, Facetime, video games... they all do this. Now, instead of 4GB total transfer, I might end up with 6GB total transfer. The main result is the file download is slowed even more. That might not be a big deal for home use, but with a lot of users, I believe it can impact the experience.

    What I'd like is a way to also cap transfer rates for individual sessions... not devices or users, but sessions; and not a quota for total bytes, but a limit on the transfer rate... while still giving QoS priority to those sessions as needed. Then Netflix streams run smooth, but when individual streams want to adjust picture quality up they think they have already maxed out what the connection can handle, and so therefore the streaming data in aggregate doesn't automatically take over the whole connection. And I'd like to be able to do this only as the link becomes saturated. If you got up early and you're the only one online, please, go ahead, and get that 4K video. But if it's right at curfew and everyone is using the internet, let's play nice, okay?
    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 03-22-2017 at 07:33 AM.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 13.1 to protect 700Mbits for ~400 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  7. #37
    Master Untangler Chrismal's Avatar
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    @jcoehoorn
    Let me see if I am understanding your point.

    So when the Network is free a Netflix video will use as much bandwidth as it needs, then when the network is busy Netflix will still have high priority but the download for Netflix will limit say example 3mbps right?

  8. #38
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    That's the idea. The trick is how you find the number. 3Mbps is fine for Netflix, but overkill for Pandora. The main thing is once the total transit on the WAN link is greater than, say, 80% full, an individual session should not be able to increase it's rate beyond what it already has.

    That's the naive response, though. If a new user starts a stream, Netflix starts off at it's lowest rate while it buffers. Rather than limit a user there, I'd like to be able re-apportion all that traffic a little better. It's a complicated problem. I still want to prioritize things so that streams work, and work well; I just want to prevent them from taking over a connection. Additionally, how do you measure rate? It's an average over some time period, but the QoS has to make a priority decision there in the moment.

    Generally speaking, if you talk to a user, they will tell you the file download and the random browser are much more important to them. Netflix is the distraction while they wait on the real thing (this doesn't always hold, but it's pretty common). It's tough to explain to them and to administrators, that no, we have to give priority to the low-value streaming traffic over the higher-value web sites.
    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 03-22-2017 at 01:28 PM.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 13.1 to protect 700Mbits for ~400 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  9. #39
    Master Untangler Chrismal's Avatar
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    That is a Awesome Idea, hope it will be taken as interest as it would be very useful

  10. #40
    Master Untangler Chrismal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post

    That's the naive response, though. If a new user starts a stream, Netflix starts off at it's lowest rate while it buffers. Rather than limit a user there, I'd like to be able re-apportion all that traffic a little better. It's a complicated problem. I still want to prioritize things so that streams work, and work well; I just want to prevent them from taking over a connection.
    In a business environment can't you just limit streaming services to a bandwidth that does not buffer but not scale to very high quality example limit streaming services to 6mbps and can not go less then example 2mbps.
    example on 100mbps pipe put streaming services on Limited Severely reservation 2 percent and max 5 percent if I am not mistaken this will allow streaming to max 5mbps and when network is busy the min it can go is 2mbps, that is how I did it at 1 of the offices I installed UT at and they never complained
    Last edited by Chrismal; 03-22-2017 at 08:32 AM.

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