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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Bandwidth Limits (data caps)

    With more connections having bandwidth limits (data caps) and more services having quality set by available bandwidth (Stadia, xCloud, netflix... ) it would be nice if there was something to limit per (device, user, seshion....) streaming bandwidth (not qos of available bandwidth) so that services with lots of available bandwidth but relatively low data caps could be cept it check. very useful for home users today, but probably useful for soho and larger businesses if the two trends countenu. i know for college dorms (one problem iv had) and probably hotels this could also be useful. it would / could also set expectations for quality of streaming without the quality jumping around based on what others are doing on the network at the same time. (can have lots of sd / hd streams simultaneously stabley but lots of 4k streams + a bunch of updates to xboxes can cause them to seemingly at random (to a user) change quality of the streams causing calls)


    Already added to
    https://untanglengfirewall.featureupvote.com/suggestions/72029/bandwidth-limits-data-caps
    Thred is to see if this can get some traction / support, seeing lots of closed threads of other users who seem to what similar things in either bandwidth control or application control.

  2. #2
    Master Untangler Sam Graf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigogig View Post
    With more connections having bandwidth limits (data caps) and more services having quality set by available bandwidth (Stadia, xCloud, netflix... ) it would be nice if there was something to limit per (device, user, seshion....) streaming bandwidth (not qos of available bandwidth) so that services with lots of available bandwidth but relatively low data caps could be cept it check.
    Welcome to the Untangle forums.

    Just so I'm understanding this right, you mention services that set the quality of streams by bandwidth so I take it you don't want to limit the bandwidth of a session, but rather limit the aggregate amount of bandwidth consumed by streaming, to protect data caps. Fair enough.

    If I've got that part right, how does this work if only streaming is targeted? Are you including YouTube here? I'm just trying to understand the mechanics. When I was protecting bandwidth it wasn't because of caps but because heavy users might impact the activity everyone, so maybe my understanding of this is skewed by that past,

  3. #3
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    Would be nice if it was per (device or user) for a service, Stadia, xCloud, playstation now, netflix, hulu, youtube, prime video, hbo.. or by service category (streaming services, gaming services)

    one reason is for data caps, but another is that it can also be used to help protect average load (wasted bandwidth can be good to have available for more unusual demands). so say you have 50 dorm rooms with 40 students streaming and a 1gbs uplink connection. say you limit streaming services to 5mbs per device (40x5 = 200mps), plenty for hd video but not for 4k. if you have the cap all students get a consistent hd stream. assuming a or a couple of heavy users do something they are unlikely to kill the rest of the bandwidth (800mbs) to the point that the 40 users drop out of hd streams.
    contrast this with simple QOS
    40 users possibly trying to stream at 4k 25mbs each = 1gbs
    everything is fine until some heavy users try to use bandwidth as well. qos can split however you want but eventually its going to cut into the 25mbs streams enough to drop to hd. and if the heave users get done and then go do it another intensive task, regular users get to experanse streaming changing from 4k to hd to 4k to possibly sd to 4k in a sitting. and that experience is far worse than just being in hd or even sd consistently.
    in our testing this is amplified by game streaming services where consistent bandwidth helps the provider send a consistent framerate with less noticeable delays

  4. #4
    Master Untangler Sam Graf's Avatar
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    Thank you, that helps.

    So would it be fair to say that if 1) you could bypass streaming and gaming traffic and 2) Untangle's QOS supported priorities based not just on percentages but also on hard data rates, you could get the job done? Still thinking about the actual mechanics of achieving the goal.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Graf View Post
    Thank you, that helps.

    So would it be fair to say that if 1) you could bypass streaming and gaming traffic and 2) Untangle's QOS supported priorities based not just on percentages but also on hard data rates, you could get the job done? Still thinking about the actual mechanics of achieving the goal.
    1 ? why would i want to bypass?
    2 yes that seems about right, but it would need to be done on an individual not on all streams at once (witch is what qos is doing now)

  6. #6
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    To answer point 1, Because QoS rules only apply to bypassed traffic. You need the Bandwidth Control module to apply QoS to filtered traffic.

    Point 2 honestly sounds a lot like magic to me... I'm not sure how that would work. QoS is about ensuring priority services have access to the wire, it's not about bandwidth caps. The latter requires very different software. Though with bandwidth control you could put devices into the penalty box if they consume too much in a given day. But this would impact all traffic after the penalty applied, not just streaming.

    But a module that could somehow limit all video streams to say... 10mbit would be pretty amazing. I just don't know how you'd do that.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
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  7. #7
    Master Untangler Sam Graf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigogig View Post
    1 ? why would i want to bypass?
    In addition to what sky-knight said, since you're talking about streaming and gaming traffic where you want to preserve throughput and data rates for traffic across dozens of users, why would you want to filter?

    Thank you for taking the time to explain what you're after. I ask about the mechanics when I wonder how, in practical terms, something could be accomplished. Or what the performance cost might be to accomplish something. Even when I wonder if something is actually possible, I still learn something.

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