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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    My point is, the Web Filter alone costs what Untangle is asking for the entire premium bundle when purchased anywhere else. There are some exceptions where you can get a Web Sense or similar filter for less month than Untangle wants, but if you start adding in the time savings for the customer it rarely makes any sense to use something else.

    Bluecoat on a Zyxel USG series comes to mind.

    .

  2. #22
    Untangle Ninja raditude's Avatar
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    I am still trying to figure out the quote below? if you have 445 devices, you noted $9612 of an annual cost? According the the Untangle store, UPTO 500 seats is $5400/yr, where is the other $4212 in expenses coming from? I admit I just skimmed this thread, but I am never deciphered this one?



    Quote Originally Posted by izrunas View Post
    Ok, so a quick network scan reveals my client has 445 unique devices on the network, which means that the annual cost for the Premium Package would be $9,612-- so subscribing to Untangle is more expensive than the billable time for my staff to duplicate all the functions of Untangle (yes, I know this is not a perfect 1:1 comparison, but it's close enough) using existing open source tools and software. I'm sorry, but "convenience and ease of use" is just not enough of a draw when the only people who will actually program the unit will be highly qualified systems administrators anyway...

    Let's do the math... $9,612 equals about 565 man-hours per year. I feel pretty certain that they can manage an Untangle replacement in less than three and a half months of working on nothing else...

    Again, not trying to be argumentative... just trying to make a point about why the client to whom I am referring will never subscribe to any of the packages.

  3. #23
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    I have to assume Untangle has carefully considered their pricing. Some of the modules include 3rd party license costs that they probably do their best to negotiate down to the minimum, but at the end of it they have to set a price that covers their development costs and pays their bills.

    I agree that the small user-count prices are pretty steep. None of my clients would even consider the premium package, nor the slightly cheaper standard package. I finally have one about to buy WAN Fail-Over, only because they bought the UT box from me specifically for the purpose of putting in a backup WAN connection. I've talked with them and a couple others about a paid package, but the conversation ended quickly when the price came up (as I knew it would). Most small businesses just aren't going to pay those kinds of per-seat prices. In fact the only way I got Untangle in to most of those clients was the assurance that they'd pay one time for the box itself, and there'd be no on-going fees.

  4. #24
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Hence the reason why over 90% of all of my sales go without subs.

    The prices aren't unfair, the issue is one of perception on the part of the business owner. I have all of my supported customers on paying subs except one.

    Why isn't that one on a paying sub? Easy... they didn't want Untangle. I wanted Untangle, and it's primary purpose is to give me an OpenVPN service to attach to so I can manage stuff.

    Why? Because $500 is NOTHING compared to the cost of having a single station down with a single virus. If the SMBs want to buy cheap Walmart Dells to run on, then they pay the price in other areas. If they don't buy, they pay more in other fees to stay functional.

    Use a downtime calculator, show them what they are loosing. Give them the option of recapturing the income. If they don't well you get to make even more money off them because they are making silly business decisions.

    Of course the real issue here, most of my local clients... you can't get blood from a turnip. I don't know of a single customer that is doing "well". Most that are still open are just able to pay bills.

    You simply aren't going to sell an Untangle to a client that is still thinking Linksys. They need to get hit hard by a massive virus, or employee misconduct before they'll even see a need in most cases.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post

    So I guess I want to ask, what products have you researched to come to the conclusion that Untangle is "too expensive"?
    Sonicwall, you get a device and subscriptions for the price of a 10 user untangle subscriptions. Also could mention cyberroam, gateprotect, etc and this is for unlimited users and is more based on the Internet connection speed and you size the hardware to your Internet connection or throughput you need.

    I think untangle biggest down fall is the hardware is just to expensive.
    The venders above are pretty much giving away hardware.

    I really think untangle needs to take in consideration that if they want a true SMB product they need to be in the range of $400 to $600 with hardware not closer to $1000 to $1200

    Granted you could hack a server or buy a used one but how many people feel comfortable showing up on the door step of a customer with a used piece of hardware saying this is your new firewall?

    I know you can run apps for free but they are limited and a tease we want the good stuff.

    If untangle wants to get serious they need to sell and all in one solution hardware and all.

  6. #26
    Untangle Ninja hescominsoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtrice81 View Post
    Sonicwall, you get a device and subscriptions for the price of a 10 user untangle subscriptions. Also could mention cyberroam, gateprotect, etc and this is for unlimited users and is more based on the Internet connection speed and you size the hardware to your Internet connection or throughput you need.

    I think untangle biggest down fall is the hardware is just to expensive.
    The venders above are pretty much giving away hardware.

    I really think untangle needs to take in consideration that if they want a true SMB product they need to be in the range of $400 to $600 with hardware not closer to $1000 to $1200

    Granted you could hack a server or buy a used one but how many people feel comfortable showing up on the door step of a customer with a used piece of hardware saying this is your new firewall?

    I know you can run apps for free but they are limited and a tease we want the good stuff.

    If untangle wants to get serious they need to sell and all in one solution hardware and all.
    they do sell their own hardware...but they really don't need to. There are several very good resellers that provide hardware and the warranty plans as well. If somebody else's hardware is too expensive you can easily throw together your own hardware.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hescominsoon View Post
    they do sell their own hardware...but they really don't need to. There are several very good resellers that provide hardware and the warranty plans as well. If somebody else's hardware is too expensive you can easily throw together your own hardware.
    lol, i knew someone would say this.

    pain and simple i can't sell an untangle box to a client with 5 to 15 users as the price for the hardware and software is around 1k, when a sonicwall is around $600

  8. #28
    Untangle Ninja hescominsoon's Avatar
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    have you checked the feature set with both at the same price? Have you looked at the weaknesses of sonicwalls cloud based dependence as compared to more localized on UT? The hardware on a sonicwall is really nothing more than a linksys type router that offloads everything off to the cloud. That works as long as you don't have any kind of instability between your router and sonicwall's cloud. I've looked at their products and frankly in many areas but most importantly performance they can't hold a candle to even one of sky's "low end" atom based appliances. Sure the sonicwall is cheaper. But at half the price there's quite a bit the sonicwall doesn't do compared to what the UT does not only for free..but if you pay the $549 extra the other benefits you get. Really it's a problem with not properly explaining the value..instead of just going for the bottom line.

  9. #29
    Untangle Ninja hescominsoon's Avatar
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    BTw i am referring to sonicwalls lowest priced appliances since they are the only things comparable in price in regards to this thread.

  10. #30
    Untangle Ninja proactivens's Avatar
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    If $400 is a make or break number for a client for such a vital piece of infrastructure, they would not be a client of mine. I don't deal with cheap. I deal with right.

    If you want a cheap solution, there's plenty of other consultants who will happily provide that service. They are a dime a dozen. In fact, I'm pretty sure I seen a cardboard sign off the side of the road for Fred's computer repair right down the street. Call Fred, I'm sure he will help.

    If you want the right solution, then give me a call. I'll do my best to provide the right solution for your situation. It isn't going to be the cheapest, but it will work the way I say it'll work and i'll stand behind it 100%.
    www.nexgenappliances.com
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