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  1. #1
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    Default (Opinion) I think the pricing model needs work.

    I'm thinking the big release of 11.2 would be a good time to make the pricing model more competitive? (opinion) I feel in the lower end market Untangle is too pricey to be competitive, and that is a market it should dominate right now IMO because it is easy to use, and offers a big step up for consumers/soho/SMB.

    Right now we're a Gold-Level Fortinet Partner and MSP. On the Mid to Upper end market Fortinet kills everyone, and I do not see that changing. Where I think Untangle would fit in nicely would be in the Low/Low-Mid market. A place where companies like Fortinet do not offer effective, lower cost solutions - and they are usually bandwidth/session limited.

    My problem is - RAPIDLY Untangle becomes much more costly than Fortinet, even removing the hardware factor. Fortinet bases it's 'Bundle' (service/UTM) pricing on hardware price, and hardware price is based on capabilities. With Untangle such a model can't really be offered because it's a software appliance. After the initial cost of the Fortigate unit, the only thing that remains is the yearly renewal. These yearly renewals range in price from $150.00 per year, up to many thousands for data center products.

    I feel the cost on Untangle doesn't scale well given the target market and POTENTIAL market. Why would we deploy Untangle at the 20 user market, when we have to charge them for a 50 user package? Most businesses won't enjoy this, and would rather have a more tailored OR a flat approach. For example a small business can purchase a Fortigate 30D for $300, then pay $150 a year for the package. Perfect for a 15 user business for example! Untangle would dump them into the 11-50 user bucket, at almost $1200 a year! This pushes Untangle out of consideration for most of these smaller firms, it's money lost.

    I propose a model like this;

    10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1500+

    1-10 - $150 a year.
    11-25 - $350 a year
    26-50 - $550 a year


    Etc.. I see homeowners running the $150 a year package in droves - thus increasing revenue/marketshare/exposure to Untangle. I could see myself building out small refurb boxes with 1-10 user packs for family/friends. But at work this would be a fantastic - competitive model so we can ditch the lower end Fortigate appliances. What reasonably 'tech' parent wouldn't drop $150 a year for good filtering and AV protection on the network? What small business wouldn't do this?

    I'd say it would be fine to heavily ramp-up pricing in the 26-50+ range, any business with enough coin to pay 50 employees can afford that. We have a lot of companies in the 26-50 range that pay $1000+ a year in UTM/Network security. Not a big deal.

  2. #2
    CEO Untangle BobW's Avatar
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    Helpful feedback. Well thought out. Thanks.

    - Bob

  3. #3
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    Nov 2014
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    One thing to consider - Fortinet is very successfully, primarily because of their competitive pricing models, and what you get with those pricing models (and bundles). Untangle should be supremely competitive in that market - I think it's just as good as Fortinet personally. I'm a NSE4/FCNSA Fortinet Engineer BTW.

    Fortinet 30D
    HW: $300
    UTM: $150 (yearly)
    UTM Throughput - 30Mbps, 200,000 concurrent sessions.
    (good for 1-20 user offices)

    Fortinet 60D
    HW: $500
    UTM: $300 (yearly)
    UTM Throughput - 35Mbps, 500,000 concurrent sessions.
    (good for 1-30 user offices)

    Fortinet 80D
    HW: $800
    UTM: $500 (yearly)
    UTM Throughput - 250Mbps, 1,500,000 concurrent sessions.
    Good for up to around 100 user offices.

    As you can see Fortinet really lacks in the Small/Small-Medium market, their devices are anemic. However the 80D is a remarkably powerful device capable of supporting businesses in the 50-100 user range. The equivalent Untangle package is $2700 a year!

    The nearest Fortinet unit yearly is $1900, which is the 240D which is a very powerful device capable of handling 500+ user offices, 2.1Gbps throughput, and 3.2 million sessions.

    This to me - in my opinion - shows the price scaling of Untangle is off balance, and doesn't scale as smoothly as it should.

  4. #4
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    Actually, Untangle would become immensely more attractive even with the following model;

    1-10 $150
    11-25 $550
    26-50 $1500

    Ramp the price up significantly as the user count rises, but provide a 'smoother' entry/low level point to get people on board. I've upgraded over a dozen firms this month on Fortigate units due to 'growth'. Companies grow, and if they like Untangle, they can grow into the higher packages without immense sticker shock.

  5. #5
    Master Untangler
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    It will never happen..... They were kicking and screaming giving you a true IDS, you only got that because they they lost some company sales because of not having an IDS. Now you are suggesting they sell a "full package" for $150 Hah NEVER HAPPEN!!! They only want the 26-50 market and up.
    If it did ever happen, they would have to stipulate no support for the 1-10 and 11-25 price range. You are on your own or visit forums and/or contact a partner so they can negotiate "help me" pricing with them.
    Last edited by blueshoes; 08-16-2015 at 05:48 AM.

  6. #6
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    I think the 1-10 tier is useless in any of these models.

    Homes looking for a product like untangle and also willing to pay the 150 subscription renewals are going to be a lot of the same people who frequently have more than 10 devices at home, even if it's not every day. Maybe it's just now and then, when entertaining, but it will happen, and asking those users to bypass devices isn't exactly a friendly response. It's also not something that's easy or intuitive for the non-technical home owner.

    That base package really needs to be closer to the 25 device mark than to 10, and at the same time you can't really raise the price any over the current suggested 1-10 tier or you start to get way too expensive again.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 15.1.0 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  7. #7
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    10 devices works in a home environment if and only if you pick and choose what devices are filtered.

    The problem really is, people don't want to count devices. A device based licensing model is doomed to start. People want to count USERS.

    Untangle used to let us count humans, now it doesn't. And it's a huge gripe with my clients, even if they are paying to renew every year.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  8. #8
    Untangle Junkie dmorris's Avatar
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    great ideas. thanks everyone.
    Attention: Support and help on the Untangle Forums is provided by volunteers and community members like yourself.
    If you need Untangle support please call or email support@untangle.com

  9. #9
    Untanglit
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    Sep 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    The problem really is, people don't want to count devices. A device based licensing model is doomed to start. People want to count USERS.
    This is exactly the case with us. We only have 15 to 20 people in our office on average, but we purchased the 50 user license to make sure we covered peak times, and it was the only other option above 10.

    This worked fine for a long time, and then maybe 1 or 2 years ago Untangle changed the licensing and now we're seeing 80 devices on the network which makes Untangle puke, stating that's we're grossly out of license compliance - when truly, we aren't. We have no more "users" on our network than what we purchased.

  10. #10
    Master Untangler
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    Southfield, MI
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    Default

    Any ETA on changes?

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