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Thread: Is it worth it?

  1. #21
    Untangler devlin7's Avatar
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    Yes, you are right, they aren't really classed as Viruses but I am looking for protection of my school network from the nasties of the outside world.

    Win32/Brontok.AY worm
    a variant of Win32/Kryptik.OJ trojan

  2. #22
    Untangler devlin7's Avatar
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    Can anyone explain why it is cheaper to buy an Endian / Astaro / Smoothwall or any other open source Linux distro firewall/UTM appliance than to run the software on a privately owner server?

    I have tested all the available products out there and some of the products weighed in at nearly 4 x the prices of a Commercial grade firewall and sadly lacked many of the features.

  3. #23
    Untangle Ninja gotkimchi's Avatar
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    Sorry to be black and white, if the commercial grade firewall is better, cheaper, and has more features, you should use them. Many people here in this forum, myself included do not agree with you (maybe because we all are drinking from the same cooler) that the commercial grade firewall is better and cheaper.
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  4. #24
    Untangler devlin7's Avatar
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    Thanks for the honest answer. I guess I want to be proved wrong. I am pro open source. The competition has sharpened the pencils and products of many major companies. Look what Linux and Open office has done to MS licensing costs in the poorer parts of the world.

    As mentioned in my earlier posts I have tried everything out there to find a replacement to our 5 year old Sonicwall Firewall. We have paid a bomb to keep this thing running for the past five years but I have to admit it has done the job well. I don't want to buy the new model Sonicwall, I just want a cost effective alternative that I know is stable and works.

  5. #25
    Untangle Junkie dmorris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devlin7 View Post
    Thanks for the honest answer. I guess I want to be proved wrong. I am pro open source. The competition has sharpened the pencils and products of many major companies. Look what Linux and Open office has done to MS licensing costs in the poorer parts of the world.
    As tchon says its simply that we don't agree with many of the assertions you've made and without having access to the data behind those assertions theres nothing we can do to convince you. It wouldn't be good to have a controversial mudslinging conversation where nothing is factual and nothing is accomplished. Ultimately, that would make it less likely you'd become an untangle user.

    You've said it has too many false positives - how are you measuring? what were the scores? why did untangle score those false positives highly? how are you defining "false positive?"

    You've said it doesn't stop enough viruses - again how are you measuring? I find your claims hard to believe - specifically after finding the opposite results myself. can you give examples of things not stopped (with links)?

    You won't find a free sonicwall, but you will find good alternatives to sonicwall that are free. The alternatives will be similar but not identical. If you're expecting to switch you must go into this with a mindset that a switch will solve certain issues but raise others, but you can't ignore the weaknesses of the sonicwall that you're now overlooking because you've worked around or dealt with them over the years.
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  6. #26
    Untangler devlin7's Avatar
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    Yes, I understand where you are coming from. Untangle is a good product, it doesn't have all the features that I need just yet but it is getting there. I openly congratitulate the developers for the work they have done.

    As mentioned before I have tested practically everything out there as a viable alternative. It comes down to PFsense and Untangle. I was going to run them both PFsense being the firewall but because it doesn't have AV capabilities run Unangle behind it in bridging mode. I don't need the Untangle anti-spam capabilites, I was testing it for fun and it works very well. I have just changed my settings so that it marks spam rather than quarantines it, this saves me going to the Untangle box to release mail.

    I am not giving up on Untangle, I believe in the product, it just isn't right for us at this point. I honestly believe it will be soon enough.

    Believe me, I am not attacking the product or the supporters, I was looking more for feedback to help with my decisions.

  7. #27
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    I had to also recommend for you to run pfsense as your main firewall/router, with Untangle in bridge mode after it. We have done several of these where Untangle doesnt cover everything we need and it has been superb.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by proactivens View Post
    What are you classifying as a virus? antivirus xp, ect are not technically viruses, they are mal-ware and may not be included in the signatures.
    aren't there malware related ids/snort signatures?

    I think OP is mainly arguing a currency issue, but his Kaspersky point is well taken. The Yoggie SOHO device seems to have a much more reasonably priced model.

    I dont think most of us are running Untangle in 1500+ installations, so to casually dismiss devlin7 is trivializing his real world experience.

    I think his statement that Kaspersky has higher detection rates than Clam-AV isn't controversial in the least. Unfortunately, you just aren't gonna get Kaspersky quality protection on the cheap at the appliance level right now with Untangle.
    Last edited by nowwhat; 05-07-2009 at 08:17 PM.

  9. #29
    Untangle Ninja proactivens's Avatar
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    Like I said, what do you expect to get for a 1500+ user level network? Kaspersky is $1080 for unlimited users. I think that $1080 is a pretty decent price to pay for something that is protecting 1500+ nodes. I just dont get the notion that this stuff is too expensive. In the 1500+ user world, $1080 is damn cheap for this kind of protection.

    If you look at any of the other UTM models, your getting less and paying more. If you feel like your getting better quality out of a sonic wall or cisco device, then go over pay for it. But your still not going to come in cheaper, and those devices are going to be lacking in certain areas, just as untangle, or any other UTM does.

    I have seen, recommended, and implemented $10k+ firewall/security solutions for large companies. They are ALL missing a little piece of the puzzle, and when you try to get a fix, you get nothing. Cisco and sonic wall dont give a crap what you think about their products. I have had support reps laugh at me and hang up. At least here, in this amazing untangle community, we get what we ask for. At least here we have a voice.
    Since I have been following Untangle, I have seen several huge leaps in feature enhancements. QOS, anti spyware, better anti spam, better reports, just to name a few. Now we have dual wan, load balancing, failover, and even more great features coming out in 6.2. You cant get a better community, better support, or better feature sets than what untangle gives away for free.

    Plenty of schools have implemented untangle in their network and have been plenty happy with the results. I will even share this little nugget with you.

    A school district in georgia recently had its network security funding cut by the state due to budget constraints. The state had been providing up to that point checkpoint security services to the school at no cost. In order for the school to continue getting the same kind of services from check point, they would have had to spend over $40K per year. So, they got one of my appliances and the epack and saved themselves $36k on their budget over this next year. Plus they got so many more features and are much better able to control and protect their network then they were before. Experience doesn't lie, and my experience tells me that untangle gives you the best bang for the buck, point blank period.
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  10. #30
    Untangler devlin7's Avatar
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    All I was trying to point out initially is that when I went throught the things I needed to replace my Sonicwall. I found that most open source packages ended up being more expensive when I ran the software only. This is mainly due to the number of users. For some reason when you purchase an appliance the supplier is happy for you to have unlimited users.

    I state again that I am not knocking UNTANGLE. I was merely pointing out what I noticed since installing untangle, namely I was seeing viruses/malware at the workstaion for the first time in 6 months.

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