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  1. #1
    Untangler
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    Default Jitter on the lan side

    This is driving me crazy, it's a while that I see strong jitter on the connection but today I noticed it starts at Untangle.

    Is it possible that the network card is on the way out? I would rather not buy another one (as cheap as it is) if it's not likely to be the issue.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Untangle Junkie dmorris's Avatar
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    traffic between two LAN machines generally won't go through Untangle at all.

    Unless you bridge multiple NICs together for the internal and they are on separate NICs.
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  3. #3
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    No, what I mean is that my server is connected to the isp router and Untangle's ping test shows perfectly normal results.

    However if I do a traceroute from any computer or device then the first hop (the lan side ethernet card of the server) can have 500 or more milliseconds and that's not nice lol

    The chipset on this card http://www.amazon.it/TP-LINK-TG-3269...dp/B000FO6QWM/ seems to be in the hardware compatibility list (I know it's outdated) woud it work in theory?

  4. #4
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of that particular realtek chipset, too many issues. That being said, I highly doubt that's what's causing your latency. I'd be looking at the network cabling, or switch attached to that interface first.
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  5. #5
    Untangle Ninja Jim.Alles's Avatar
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    can we get a network map?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim.Alles View Post
    can we get a network map?
    Yes but it's a fairly ugly network. The first router is the isp one, it's mandatory and also very aggressive (dhcp server always on, namely) so I put it "out" of the network behind a proper router. Some stuff is plugged into that router, including a powerline adapter that is the only reasonable way to bring the connection to the rest of the home. Then it gets out of another adapter and into a switch with lots of things plugged in, including both external and internal cards of the Untangle server. I did mention this was ugly. It all magically works because the isp router is set as 192.168.0.1; the one protecting the network from that abomination is 192.168.1.1 and the rest of the network, once it comes out of the Untangle is 192.168.2.x

    Yup, it's a lot of DMZ and it's like that due to space issues, can't really make it "normal".

    Anyway I'm fairly sure it's the network card because pinging anything else gives reasonable results.
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  7. #7
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    You want to move untangle to live in between the ISP router and your actual router. Then set your existing router to use bridge mode (turn off dhcp and plug in the internet link to a LAN port).

    Now you have a couple of choices.
    1. You can have untangle in bridge mode as well, and let the ISP modem also do your routing. This is nice because you avoid a double NAT situation on your network.
    2. You can put untangle in router mode and turn on dhcp services in untangle. This is nice, because Untangle is probably a lot better at managing this stuff than the ISP router.
    3. You can put Untangle in bridge mode and leave your existing wifi router mostly configured as it is. This is nice because it most closely resembles a traditional home network and requires the least amount of change, but it's less desirable because your router will end up hiding some info from untangle.

    All this assumes that you really can't get your ISP router into bridge mode. That's really the favorite here. But assuming it really is impossible, I'd go for the 2nd option in this list.

    Regardless of what you choose, the cabling setup for your network should look like the attached image below. The closer Untangle is to your internet connection, the easier things get. As it is, it sounds like devices on the WiFi Router side of the power line adapters much actually cross the powerline link TWICE: once to get routed by untangle, and then back again to the Wifi Router. Then it will get routed again by the ISP router. Each of those routing steps adds latency, and those powerline links are not known for the best performance or reliability. There's a good chance they are the source of your jitter. With my suggested setup, packets are only routed twice and maybe even just once, depending on which option, and the only traffic that has to cross the powerlink link is traffic to or from devices that are actually connected on the other side of the link.
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    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 05-15-2016 at 02:14 PM.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 16.2 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  8. #8
    Untangler
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post
    As it is, it sounds like devices on the WiFi Router side of the power line adapters much actually cross the powerline link TWICE: once to get routed by untangle, and then back again to the Wifi Router.
    Yup.That was going to be my argument for an upgrade of the powerline adapters when we started moving to fiber, but then again we can't have the 50 megabit line (or the sweet 100 one) and it ended up in a 30 megabit offer. The powerline adapters in my specific situation push 80-90 megabits so no bottlenecks yet.

    Also, while pointing the finger in their direction makes sense, I can ping anything on either side of their link with normal values to the point that I moved my PS4 from 192.168.2.x to 192.168.1.x and the killer jitter has gone away. About that, most of the house is behind their link (PS4 included, yes), barely anything connected to the wifi router.

    The ISP router is a Vodafone Station Revolution and I don't know how much info you can get in english, but some peculiarities are the lack of dhcp settings (it's possible to set some static IPs but that's all), a kindly offered option to disable their "Safe DNS" that forced all DNS queries on their servers, inability to use a different router because the line athentication is made via hardware and, if you hack around that, no way at all to use the phone line because nobody found out the settings/login data for their VoIP. It's a beatiful object with good hardware and a lot of features, but it's targeted at people unable to tell the difference between an RJ11 and an RJ45. And about that, it's a FTTC line so I need anyway some sort of VDSL modem, no RJ45 out of the wall. The current DHCP server is my trusty Mac Mini that by now has about 10 years of static maps so I'm not encouraged to move that duty anywhere else lol.

    Really, I've been running this setup (minus the demon ISP router) for more than 1 year and everybody at home appreciates the ad blocking feature of Untangle so with the new licensing it was a no brainer to upgrade, but I'm pretty sure the issue is the internal network interface as I've noticed no other issues in any way I look at it. It's just a cheap card that is having issues, I simply never seen it happen before

  9. #9
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Even if the internal interface is bad and everything is fine after you replace it, you should still make the changes I suggested. You'll have a much faster and leaner network with less latency.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 16.2 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  10. #10
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Oh...

    If you absolutely have to keep untangle where it is, you can at least still put your WiFi Router into bridge mode (disable dhcp and connect ISP modem to a LAN port). Let untangle do the dhcp/dns work on your network. Untangle should tell all dhcp devices that it is the default gateway. Then Untangle can use your ISP router's LAN address as it's gateway. In this way, traffic will still get where it needs to go, and you avoid one router hop in most cases.

    But really... you're shooting yourself in the foot having Untangle on the far side of the powerlink link from your ISP. Untangle really wants to be inline with your internet connection.
    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 05-15-2016 at 07:09 PM.
    Jim.Alles likes this.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 16.2 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

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