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  1. #1
    Master Untangler RiffRaff's Avatar
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    Default Replace 32GB mSATA with 24 GB?

    I have a Z4 that I am pretty sure has a failed drive. It came with a 32 GB mSATA drive. Will a 24 GB drive be sufficient as a replacement? It has about a dozen devices that connect to it.

    Thanks,
    Riff
    Risking my life for people I hate for reasons I don't understand.

  2. #2
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    I won't use Untangle with less than 80gb of drive space.

    The base install needs 6gb just for the OS, you need to double that just to be safe in having enough space to download updates (OS replacement upgrades are huge) So that 12gb. And you're at 50% of the SSD, which is where the write endurance starts to ramp up. I'm using ~0.6gb / day for reports for my home/office. So if you stuck to 7 days of retention, you should be around 16.2gb used at a worst case. Yes, that fits, but I wouldn't expect the SSD to live very long.

    Which is why that little 32gb died... same problem.
    junglechuck likes this.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  3. #3
    Untangler jcoffin's Avatar
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    Default

    I have used as little as a 16GB M.2 drive. It is fine as long as reports is turned down to 1 day.
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  4. #4
    Master Untangler RiffRaff's Avatar
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    Default

    Thank you for that info; it was very useful. But it kind of makes me wonder why Untangle would ship appliances with that small of a hard drive.

    Thank you again.
    Riff

    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    I won't use Untangle with less than 80gb of drive space.

    The base install needs 6gb just for the OS, you need to double that just to be safe in having enough space to download updates (OS replacement upgrades are huge) So that 12gb. And you're at 50% of the SSD, which is where the write endurance starts to ramp up. I'm using ~0.6gb / day for reports for my home/office. So if you stuck to 7 days of retention, you should be around 16.2gb used at a worst case. Yes, that fits, but I wouldn't expect the SSD to live very long.

    Which is why that little 32gb died... same problem.
    Risking my life for people I hate for reasons I don't understand.

  5. #5
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiffRaff View Post
    Thank you for that info; it was very useful. But it kind of makes me wonder why Untangle would ship appliances with that small of a hard drive.

    Thank you again.
    Riff
    Because it depends on report retention and utilization. My reports aren't your reports... no one can know what storage you need for reports... it's not intuitive but it's quite real. It also depends on how long you want the device to work. I have very strict requirements for any database carrying work load on an SSD. I use those because I want a solution to last decades.

    You have the device with the failing M.2... you see what happens when you sell a solution designed for 3 years instead of one meant for 10. I'm more comfortable with the latter, but the market is demanding the former. What Untangle is doing isn't wrong, it does work. And what's nuts? It COSTS MORE over time, but that's also what people are more willing to buy... go figure.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  6. #6
    Untangler
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    ... you see what happens when you sell a solution designed for 3 years instead of one meant for 10. I'm more comfortable with the latter, but the market is demanding the former. What Untangle is doing isn't wrong, it does work. And what's nuts? It COSTS MORE over time, but that's also what people are more willing to buy... go figure.
    Well, I'm wondering though, if Untangle doesn't hurt themselves here. The z4 has 32GB and costs $300. If you want more disk space from Untangle, the z6 has 512GB and costs $1200. It also is likely overkill in every other way for home usage. So why don't they offer some minimal configuration for the z4, say two RAM options (4GB and 8GB) and two storage options (32GB and 128GB). Or perhaps only the two storage options. A 128GB mSATA SSD seems to cost $15-$20 more than a 32GB mSATA SSD, so they could easily charge $40 or $50 more for the larger model, which should cover their cost and leave a bit of margin. Or perhaps even charge $60 or $70 more.

    E.g. in my case I currently use 50GB storage on my home Untangle device, because I have reports activated for 99 days and also have logging for bypassed sessions enabled. This is to track WAN data usage over time (thanks, Comcast!!!). So even if I had set the report duration to 32 days (the absolute minimum in my case), I'd still be using 20GB disk space (assuming the fixed 6GB for Untangle), which is likely still too much storage utilization. So if I decided that I wanted to get a genuine Untangle appliance for our home, I couldn't even get one for under $1200. That is hardly a value proposition.

    I understand that having extra configuration options increases the logistical effort, but realistically it shouldn't be by that much in this day and age. And even if the 128GB version doesn't sell that great, they just adjust their stock level accordingly (or perhaps just insert the SSD into the appliance in a built-to-order process).

    Obviously I'm just a home user, so I'm not familiar with the market. Perhaps they tried this in the past and decided that it wasn't worth it to fill that gap. Or perhaps the z4 is just an older model that needs a refresh?

  7. #7
    Untangler
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    My box had 32GB for a long time and it worked fine so long as you aren't trying to retain logs forever. That said, drive space is cheap so why not go for a larger size.
    CMcNaughton likes this.

  8. #8
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Untangle's appliances aren't the only appliances on the shelf, if their offerings are too strict, find another vendor.

    But yes, I feel 32gb is way too small for business use cases. And no, I do not like the z4, in any way it sells for any market segment. It's too limiting, and it comes from an untrustworthy source. But Untangle offers it because they have to, that price point is all that matters to most customers, and the only way to attain it is to do what they've done.
    CMcNaughton likes this.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  9. #9
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    sky-night, curious on your thoughts about getting a z4w, and using clonezilla to immediately swap it out with a 120gb SSD I have lying around (came with a laptop, which was immediately upgraded to 480). My home system is running an Atom D525 from 2013, and has a repurposed spinning rust disk that's two years older; it's coming up on time for a refresh.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 15.1.0 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  10. #10
    Master Untangler CMcNaughton's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tangofan View Post
    .........Or perhaps the z4 is just an older model that needs a refresh?
    Um...so, I'm not saying anything in an official capacity, but unofficially, stay tuned this summer. I was never here.
    hpaunet likes this.

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