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  1. #31
    Untangle Ninja proactivens's Avatar
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    its a pp war
    www.nexgenappliances.com
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by proactivens View Post
    its a pp war
    Not what I was hoping for.
    But a nas isn't a san.
    A white box pc isn't a blade
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_server
    the essentials kit doesn't do what he says it does. http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphe...omparison.html
    Am I wrong here?

    He told me to call vmware because I was getting ripped off and had no understanding. I don't think that was fair.

  3. #33
    Untangle Ninja mrunkel's Avatar
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    Let's all back off a bit.

    Dell4242, You came charging in here like a Bull in a china shop and you wonder why folks got annoyed? Disingenious at best.

    Sky-Knight, you know better. :-)

    Let's all leave this thread as is.. I think it's all been said.
    m.
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    While I'm pretty sure, I can't guarantee that I know what I'm doing. There might be a better way to do this, and this way might actually suck. Make sure you understand the implications of what you're doing before trying to follow these directions.
    <BR>It often helps troubleshooting if you have a good network map. Look <A HREF="http://forums.untangle.com/tip-day/5407-how-draw-network-diagram.html">here</A> if you want my advice on how to draw one. <BR> <B>Attention: Support and help on the Untangle Forums is provided by volunteers and community members like yourself.
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  4. #34
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrunkel View Post
    Let's all back off a bit.

    Dell4242, You came charging in here like a Bull in a china shop and you wonder why folks got annoyed? Disingenious at best.

    Sky-Knight, you know better. :-)

    Let's all leave this thread as is.. I think it's all been said.
    That's why I stopped.

    Still, Dell's entry to the community was no less disruptive than mine. I'm just sitting here realizing this thread has reached a level of pointless that is near epic in class. So I'm left hoping that Dell decides to stick around, because the fire he places in these posts indicates a passion that will do well for this project.

    Dell, Jim and I are working hard on some new toys for Untangle on a hardware level. Just prior to that project taking off I managed to get the sonicwall I needed to test the IPSec functionality completely. I have a PIX 501 sitting here as well. I figure if I can get this old 501, and TZ170 working with Untangle we'll have what we need to make IPSec a reality. So yes, there are those of us working on it. And when I get clear of some of this other stuff I assume you'll be waiting to help test it?
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  5. #35
    Untangle Ninja proactivens's Avatar
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    Well maybe not, but I havent taken the time to read all 30+ threads here either.

    Openfiler can be a SAN and a NAS all at the same time
    You can build whitiebox blades, but they arent cheap http://www.supermicro.com/products/S...ade/enclosure/
    You can call vmware and get HA added to the essentials license for cheap. I think my last client paid $3000 or there about. It was a year ago under 3.5.
    My whitebox VMware ESXI cluster cost about $12k total. Thats hardware, software, and licensing. 2x hypervisors (Dell PE 2950 III Quad Xeon, 8GB Ram), 2 SAN's (windows server 2003 running Starwind Enterprise, 6x Sata 10K 250GB hardware Raid 10), and 1 openfiler NAS/SAN for non critical shares, ect.

    You should call vmware, they will give you big discounts. You should also shop around, there are plenty of internet bound vmware resellers who discount huge to generate volume. That's how I got my licenses for essentials. I then called vmware and said I need HA, and I got it for $500.
    www.nexgenappliances.com
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by proactivens View Post
    Well maybe not, but I havent taken the time to read all 30+ threads here either.

    Openfiler can be a SAN and a NAS all at the same time
    You can build whitiebox blades, but they arent cheap http://www.supermicro.com/products/S...ade/enclosure/
    You can call vmware and get HA added to the essentials license for cheap. I think my last client paid $3000 or there about. It was a year ago under 3.5.
    My whitebox VMware ESXI cluster cost about $12k total. Thats hardware, software, and licensing. 2x hypervisors (Dell PE 2950 III Quad Xeon, 8GB Ram), 2 SAN's (windows server 2003 running Starwind Enterprise, 6x Sata 10K 250GB hardware Raid 10), and 1 openfiler NAS/SAN for non critical shares, ect.

    You should call vmware, they will give you big discounts. You should also shop around, there are plenty of internet bound vmware resellers who discount huge to generate volume. That's how I got my licenses for essentials. I then called vmware and said I need HA, and I got it for $500.
    I always shop around.... But most clients just go with enterprise licenses from a preferred vendor. That said with support contracts etc vmware adds up.

    I asked if they were supermicro blades earlier.
    I also meantioned openfiler and nextenta previously (as a way to keep costs down), and I have an openfiler san at home on a supermicro storage server (these are nice), the case I got has tripple redundant power supplies and supports 16 drives (used on ebay $250), got the board surpless with dual quad core xeon support for $100. There are definately cheaper options to proprietary sans, but costumers ussually don't consider them.

    I like openfiler but there are something it doesn't do well like multipathing. It's not active active, but active passive with drdb (fine for most environments) and It's hard to build 3 good ones for 10k.

    If you like openfiler you should have a look at nexenta. It uses zfs and can do deduplication. ZFS pools are great.

    I wouldn't buy a qnap, because of the alternatives mentioned, it doesn't do appear to do snapshots and it's running on a celeron with two nics. Raid options are limmitted to raid 6, and iops on sata drives aren't ideal. In my mind this doesn't make it a san. I could build something more to my liking.

  7. #37
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    QNap has an entire line of VMWare certified storage servers that have the features required for HA and the rest. Their basic units don't, but take a look at the nicer units. When the dust settled I found I could get one of their boxes, it was just as good as what I wanted to build by hand, and the price was almost identical to building it myself. Except... theirs has support, from both them and VMWare.

    And the stuff I called a blade server before was incorrect, I should have used the term hypervisor. They are simply 2 or 4u white-box rack servers. Or towers depending on what the client needs. True blades are darn expensive, and I'm annoyed because Intel's blade system was half the price it is now this time last year. So you could get 3200 series servers in blade format for about $300 over the cost of a normal build. Now you get to pay through the nose for the same hardware.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  8. #38
    Untangle Ninja proactivens's Avatar
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    I didnt go with openfiler for the redundant sans (they were setup using BLDR) because openfiler's mirroring/clustering is a nightmare and it doesnt work reliably. Starwind enterprise on the other hand works great and I love their licensing. Slap win2k3 on the san but leave all but the os partition unformatted. Install starwind and it finds your unformatted space and uses it as storage for the targets. The starwind enterprise license costs about $2000 but covers 2 san servers for block level data replication. It does not do real time failover for $2000 but it does near time pretty well. An extra $1000 and you can do real time failover if you need it.
    www.nexgenappliances.com
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by proactivens View Post
    I didnt go with openfiler for the redundant sans (they were setup using BLDR) because openfiler's mirroring/clustering is a nightmare and it doesnt work reliably. Starwind enterprise on the other hand works great and I love their licensing. Slap win2k3 on the san but leave all but the os partition unformatted. Install starwind and it finds your unformatted space and uses it as storage for the targets. The starwind enterprise license costs about $2000 but covers 2 san servers for block level data replication. It does not do real time failover for $2000 but it does near time pretty well. An extra $1000 and you can do real time failover if you need it.
    Haven't played with starwind. Have heard some good things about datacore, which sounds similar.
    a blog I like to read on storage is http://storagemojo.com/ .

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    QNap has an entire line of VMWare certified storage servers that have the features required for HA and the rest. Their basic units don't, but take a look at the nicer units. When the dust settled I found I could get one of their boxes, it was just as good as what I wanted to build by hand, and the price was almost identical to building it myself. Except... theirs has support, from both them and VMWare..
    I'll check them out more closely... Froogle shows that they are pretty cheap.
    I looked at their highend unit specs. I'd consider them if the raid options where more flexibe, and if they had more than two nics. They also seem like they are just sata. Honestly the spend of the sans I see are pretty steep, because they want a net app or an emc with 4 hours onsite.

    Have you looked at the
    supermicro storage chasis line they are pretty sick.
    http://www.supermicro.com/products/c...16-R1400LP.cfm

    And the stuff I called a blade server before was incorrect, I should have used the term hypervisor. They are simply 2 or 4u white-box rack servers. Or towers depending on what the client needs. True blades are darn expensive, and I'm annoyed because Intel's blade system was half the price it is now this time last year. So you could get 3200 series servers in blade format for about $300 over the cost of a normal build. Now you get to pay through the nose for the same hardware.
    No worries. I'd also take a look at the new boards from asus and supermicro (they now include ip management). For the longest time it was improssible to sell a server with ilo or drac like functionality. Now it's finally hitting mainstream board manufactures.

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