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  1. #1
    Master Untangler
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    Default Pricing Change Question

    With the announcement today of the new Non-Profit and Public-Sector Complete options, I have a question. Does this mean the old Education Complete option has gone away?

    Based on the website, the Public Sector complete, which seems to be for public schools, would be $7,200 for a 3 yr package for 150-500 users.

    My last purchase of EDU Complete, for the same time and users, was $4284. If my math is right, this is a 68% increase.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the product, and am not saying it isn't worth it. What will be difficult, however, is selling this much of an increase to my school board when it comes to renewal time.

    Can we get some clarification if this is the case, and if so, reasoning behind it? Having the info straight from the company as to why such a jump occurred might make it easier to explain.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Default

    As far as I understand it existing customers maintain what they have as long as they keep the sub. New customers, will be primarily affected.

    The 3 year sub used to have a 30% discount on it, now it only has a 20% discount, what was on the 2 year. To get the 30% you need to do a five year term.

    Using your example a 500 device 3 year Education Premium sub was $5040, or $1680 per year.

    A 500 device Public Sector license is $10,500 or $2100 / year. That's a 25% increase, and yes it's going to make sales harder. Untangle is already not cost competitive, this latest change is nothing short of a disaster.

    Non-governmental non-profits have it even worse!

    I can only assume this move is designed to force more Untangle customers to the uSeries, to get the lower renewal rates. Which, being limited to 10% margin, are utterly useless to resellers. The writing on the wall to Untangle's channel is get out, we don't need you or want you.

    u500 pricing 3 Year warranty, no cold spare:

    Free: $3845
    Public Sector Complete: $6686, $2629 renewal.

    That means the sub costs: $2841 for three years, and $2629 for subsequent renewals. And that's for THREE YEARS, don't forget. $947 / year vs $2100 a year at max discount levels.
    Last edited by sky-knight; 03-18-2015 at 06:12 AM.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  3. #3
    Master Untangler
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    Jan 2014
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    As far as I understand it existing customers maintain what they have as long as they keep the sub. New customers, will be primarily affected.

    The 3 year sub used to have a 30% discount on it, now it only has a 20% discount, what was on the 2 year. To get the 30% you need to do a five year term.

    Using your example a 500 device 3 year Education Premium sub was $5040, or $1680 per year.

    A 500 device Public Sector license is $10,500 or $2100 / year. That's a 25% increase, and yes it's going to make sales harder. Untangle is already not cost competitive, this latest change is nothing short of a disaster.

    Non-governmental non-profits have it even worse!

    I can only assume this move is designed to force more Untangle customers to the uSeries, to get the lower renewal rates. Which, being limited to 10% margin, are utterly useless to resellers. The writing on the wall to Untangle's channel is get out, we don't need you or want you.
    I knew my math was off, it's what I get for doing it before I finished my coffee...

    I really don't want to move to the USeries, personally. While I"m sure the hardware is more than up to snuff, I like being able to put it on my own setup. I have 2 server OEM's within 50 miles of me, and while they're not big, the ability to literally throw the server into my car, drive an hour, plop it on their desk and say "I need this fixed in warranty now" is *huge* to me.

    This move worries me, and may influence our decision come renewal time.

  4. #4
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    I just updated my original bit to include the uSeries pricing.

    And I don't want to be forced to the uSeries either, but the writing is on the wall.

    I need to recall what I said about cost not being competitive, because even at $2100 / year for 500 users given a 5 year term, that's only $4.20 per device, for a year. That's $.35 / month / client. Which makes the price about the same as OpenDNS Umbrella, except the latter doesn't require local hardware. I need to be clear here, that $.35 is what the reseller pays, end user pricing is quite different. Which means for schools, Untangle NG is a steal even if just used for content control.

    Of course, that's not an apples to apples comparison either, Untangle does more. And as usual, I'm a short sighted hot head by nature. The math doesn't lie!

    Untangle, just give us discounts for renewals! Give people a reason to renew! I'm doing it now out of my own margin, and it's working to a degree but I'm limited in what I can do based on what you give me.
    Last edited by sky-knight; 03-18-2015 at 06:32 AM.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  5. #5
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Default

    This makes me sad. I was already looking at needing the next level up for user counts when we renew this summer, which already about doubles the cost, even though our student counts have only slightly changed, and even declined (I didn't know a good way to measure devices before, and was estimating based on the number of students and dhcp leases. Now that I've seen how to check untangle's number, I see my estimate was wrong and I'll need a larger license).

    Now, this will likely also mean I can't carry my existing subscription over, and I'll be forced to move to the new pricing, as well. My VP won't like that; I'll probably be asked to lose 3-4 weeks of my summer ...again... evaluating a more cost-effective alternative One of these times that other product will pass the evaluation and we'll end up using something else.
    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 03-18-2015 at 07:43 AM.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 15.1.0 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  6. #6
    Master Untangler
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    I just updated my original bit to include the uSeries pricing.

    And I don't want to be forced to the uSeries either, but the writing is on the wall.

    I need to recall what I said about cost not being competitive, because even at $2100 / year for 500 users given a 5 year term, that's only $4.20 per device, for a year. That's $.35 / month / client. Which makes the price about the same as OpenDNS Umbrella, except the latter doesn't require local hardware. I need to be clear here, that $.35 is what the reseller pays, end user pricing is quite different. Which means for schools, Untangle NG is a steal even if just used for content control.

    Of course, that's not an apples to apples comparison either, Untangle does more. And as usual, I'm a short sighted hot head by nature. The math doesn't lie!

    Untangle, just give us discounts for renewals! Give people a reason to renew! I'm doing it now out of my own margin, and it's working to a degree but I'm limited in what I can do based on what you give me.
    Completely agree with the pricing being competative, and honestly that's not even the concern. Concern was the jump, and justifying it to my board.

    When/if we renew, our server machine will need to be replaced anyways due to age. At that time, its starting to look like I'm going into a USeries box, if we stick with the cost. Just a bitter pill to me, as I really like having my own hardware.

  7. #7
    Untangle Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    The writing on the wall to Untangle's channel is get out, we don't need you or want you.
    O_o

    You've been staring at that writing for years.

  8. #8
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Default

    Well before they were playing both sides of the coin, now... well it just is what it is.

    I've got some ideas on how to overcome the capital problem, which really is the barrier for sales. If you go cloud based you are going to pay MORE per device than Untangle, by a large margin. However, most people don't have the ability to fork over 10g for a 5 year sub, and if they could they don't want to.

    Which means, I get to become a bank to stay in business... that's ok, I've got it handled.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

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