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  1. #11
    Master Untangler
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    Depends. How many devices are you running? What apps are installed? For very small offices, probably not a problem. My home office is virtualized and supports a AD server, Untangle, and an antivirus management server on a 3 disk RAID 5 setup without problems.
    ...Rick

  2. #12
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST3ALTHPSYCH0 View Post
    I've seen other mention that, in a virtualized environment, disk I/O is the major concern. My host is running on a 4 disk 7200 RPM RAID. Will I have bottlenecks with that, given that my other VMs are either DHCP/DNS or Content servers (frontend only, content is hosted elsewhere in the network)?
    That depends on whatever else you've got running on it. And, how much logging you need to do. A 7200RPM spindle dedicated to Untangle will handle thousands of devices typically. The question becomes, what is it sharing with? And, if that stuff gets busy, how much lag will it introduce to your Internet connection.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    That depends on whatever else you've got running on it. And, how much logging you need to do. A 7200RPM spindle dedicated to Untangle will handle thousands of devices typically. The question becomes, what is it sharing with? And, if that stuff gets busy, how much lag will it introduce to your Internet connection.
    Quote Originally Posted by RBoynton View Post
    Depends. How many devices are you running? What apps are installed? For very small offices, probably not a problem. My home office is virtualized and supports a AD server, Untangle, and an antivirus management server on a 3 disk RAID 5 setup without problems.
    I suppose specs and deployment are in order:

    Hypervisor:
    1x Xeon E5504 (2.0 GHz x 4 core)
    12 GB Reg ECC DDR3-1333
    LSI MegaRAID 9261 8i (4 x 500GB 7200 RPM RAID 10)
    ESXi Free 6.0 U1

    VMs:
    Debian 8 webserver (1vCPU, 512 MB RAM, 20GB HDD): Runs ACME process 2x /wk to keep letsencrypt cert renewed
    Debian 8 Emby-server (2 vCPU, 2 GB RAM, 20 GB HDD): Runs Emby server frontend and stream transcoding. Content stored in SMB share from my Windows desktop.
    Debian 8 UniFi Controller (2 vCPU, 2 GB RAM, 20 GB HDD): Runs Java based UniFi Controller for Ubiquiti APs.
    Windows Server 2008 (2 vCPU, 4 GB RAM, 100GB HDD): Runs DNS and DHCP for LAN.

    Untangle VM (???, ???, ???): Specs will either be based off current physical host (2 cores/ 2 vCPUs, 4GB RAM, 80 GB HDD) or OVA.

    I know I need to procure more RAM before virtualizing my Untangle, based off current hypervisor RAM usage + current Untangle RAM usage. That said, I think that Untangle is going to be my only disk intensive VM (Until I buy more RAM and spin up a FreeNAS VM, but that will only be to backup a couple of networked PCs, so it should only see activity in the wee hours of the morning when the house is asleep, so Untangle should not be seeing any activity).

    Thanks for the advice guys (gals?... other?)

  4. #14
    Master Untangler
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    Those other VM's are not particularly disk-intensive, so you should be ok. I would get more RAM, for sure. Running 4g on a Server 2008 is pretty skinny. The O/S takes almost that much to be happy, so you are not giving the other roles much to work with. If the OS does not have enough RAM to be happy, then it will start swapping. That will cause a lot more I/O to your disks, which may cause issues down the road.
    ...Rick

  5. #15
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    I would not put Untangle on that host. Server 2k8 will eat two 7200rpm spindles by itself, the Linux stuff will only really consume drive IO while booting, I'd bet they are ram caching the rest. There is too much risk of a snowball of drive IO taking out your network connectivity with this configuration.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  6. #16
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    diskIO.png

    This is what my disk usage looks like from the last hour. Do you really think that sharing that array w/ Untangle for a 6 person home use will kill it?



    I may also see if I have anywhere inside the server chassis open to mount a separate HDD. I can make it its own datastore and then put UT all by itself on that datastore.
    Last edited by ST3ALTHPSYCH0; 10-06-2016 at 12:08 PM.

  7. #17
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    The graph shows normal usage, you're creating a situation where under load you have a cascade failure potential. If you're ok with that risk, have fun. But that's why virtualizing Untangle isn't generally recommended. A RAM shortage, drive IO spike, or NIC saturation can not only eat access to all of those VMs but sever Internet connectivity too. That creates a very ugly hole from which a network can have a hard time crawling out of.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  8. #18
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    I'm going to see if there's room in the chassis to mount a dedicated hard drive. Before I virtualize I intend to buy another 32 GB RAM. Untangle has a dedicated NIC for WAN on this box and the other 3 Gb NICs are teamed. I suppose I'll still run the risk of bus saturation creating an IO issue at that point...

  9. #19
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    So... after digging into my server last night, I found that I'm not able to use 2 of my NICs. The card is a Silicom PEG2BPI, and, according to the link lights, it's stuck in bypass mode. Anyway, I have a bead on an Intel PRO/1000 4 port card for a great price, but I can't virtualize until I have some more ports in the machine. Also, it looks like I'll have to go 2.5" to stash another drive in the machine... So I plan on a 120GB SSD that I'll make its own datastore and give entirely to Untangle.

    I'm looking at spending about $200, but I should end up with a solid platform not only to virtualize my filter, but even have room for other VMs.

    Thanks for the input.

  10. #20
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    That sounds good, as long as Untangle has dedicated NICs, and drive space I can see little reason why it would ever be an issue.

    Just don't be silly and use that dynamic RAM feature!

    Also, fair warning I haven't tried Untangle in Hyper-V in a long while. How fast is your Internet? Because if you have to go to legacy NICs, those are limited to 100mbit.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

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