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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrobbins View Post
    I agree with most of the sentiment above, on both sides. I'm just bummed out that I can't run Untangle on a new computer, with a motherboard that was released a year and a half ago being "too new". Strange that Proxmox runs on Debian too, but it recognizes the onboard video and LAN just fine.

    I have some retired Q87 boards laying around with i5-4570s, 8GB of memory, and WD Black 500GB HDDs. It looks like I'll just go with those, as I'm not confident enough in my own abilities/experience with Prox Mox on 4 sites for a customer a half hour away. Maybe if I was just playing around in a lab environment...
    Throw a 256gig ssd into that box and you will love it. Make sure it has intel nic's too. Have it be 10g or 1g. That box will work great.
    Started Youtube Channel, Have a question about Untangle Ask me : jason @ jasonslab.ca
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashpuppy View Post
    IMO, I strongly recommend keeping Untangle on a dedicated appliance 100%.
    it's a horses for courses thing. I have installed on both bare metal and VM. My own preference is to install in a VM. even if untangle is the only VM. from my standpoint as a non professional user I enjoy the ability to have automated backups with minimal overhead. for home lab scenarios it's a good solution, upgrading hardware is simple and transferring the current untangle image to a new platform is as simple as a file copy.
    now for business use that may be different...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by primerump View Post
    it's a horses for courses thing. I have installed on both bare metal and VM. My own preference is to install in a VM. even if untangle is the only VM. from my standpoint as a non professional user I enjoy the ability to have automated backups with minimal overhead. for home lab scenarios it's a good solution, upgrading hardware is simple and transferring the current untangle image to a new platform is as simple as a file copy.
    now for business use that may be different...
    Yes there were a few pro's to having few in a VM, Veeam backup & restore was stupid fast. But doing patching & maintenance on the server brings everything down.
    Started Youtube Channel, Have a question about Untangle Ask me : jason @ jasonslab.ca
    https://www.youtube.com/c/jasonslabvideos << Please like and subscribe, helps me out !!

  4. #24
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashpuppy View Post
    IMO, I strongly recommend keeping Untangle on a dedicated appliance 100%.
    The overhead to run the hypervisor isn't what it used to be, and sharing one set of hardware among multiple guests is not the only benefit of virtualization.

    So while I agree you should dedicate the WHOLE appliance to Untangle 100%, I don't necessarily agree this means you shouldn't use proxmox. Or KVM. Or vmware. Or HyperV. Or something else I might be missing.
    donhwyo and dashpuppy like this.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 16.5 to protect a 1Gbps fiber link for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post
    The overhead to run the hypervisor isn't what it used to be, and sharing one set of hardware among multiple guests is not the only benefit of virtualization.

    So while I agree you should dedicate the WHOLE appliance to Untangle 100%, I don't necessarily agree this means you shouldn't use proxmox. Or KVM. Or vmware. Or HyperV. Or something else I might be missing.

    Call me old skool ! I like my firewall to be on the edge and on dedicated hardware.
    Started Youtube Channel, Have a question about Untangle Ask me : jason @ jasonslab.ca
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  6. #26
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashpuppy View Post
    Call me old skool ! I like my firewall to be on the edge and on dedicated hardware.
    As mine is currently. My Untangle server is currently bare metal.

    But VMs do more than smooth over driver issues like in this thread. They also make things like backups more consistent across an environment, make it easier to hook the hardware into a monitoring tool in a uniform way, make it easier to move a server (software) instance across hardware generations, etc.

    So while my current Untangle system is bare metal, my next Untangle system will likely have a hypervisor matching the rest of my environment -- currently (sigh) Hyper-V. This is even though Untangle will be the ONLY VM on that hardware. In this way, the "bare metal" is still 100% dedicated to Untangle, but I gain the management benefits of virtualization.
    dashpuppy likes this.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 16.5 to protect a 1Gbps fiber link for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post
    As mine is currently. My Untangle server is currently bare metal.

    But VMs do more than smooth over driver issues like in this thread. They also make things like backups more consistent across an environment, make it easier to hook the hardware into a monitoring tool in a uniform way, make it easier to move a server (software) instance across hardware generations, etc.

    So while my current Untangle system is bare metal, my next Untangle system will likely have a hypervisor matching the rest of my environment -- currently (sigh) Hyper-V. This is even though Untangle will be the ONLY VM on that hardware. In this way, the "bare metal" is still 100% dedicated to Untangle, but I gain the management benefits of virtualization.
    I had pfsense Opnsense Untangle all in a VM i actually liked it, was easy to backup and use. My issue is that my ISP is locked to Mac addresses, if I change a setting on the server or accidently break the mac address, shit goes sideways.

    When learning pfsense and doing stuff, it was wicked if I broke it, I told veeam to restore and i was back in action 30-90 seconds later. On baremetal that doesn't exist that fast.

    Since i have a HA prox-mox setup now with 2 very powerful WAY under used nodes i might try the virtual fw again some day..
    Started Youtube Channel, Have a question about Untangle Ask me : jason @ jasonslab.ca
    https://www.youtube.com/c/jasonslabvideos << Please like and subscribe, helps me out !!

  8. #28
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashpuppy View Post
    My ISP is locked to Mac addresses, if I change a setting on the server or accidently break the mac address, shit goes sideways.
    Yep. This is another very good reason to use a VM, since most hypervisors make it easy to specify a MAC address for the network adapters. You could do this in the base linux OS, too, but with Untangle it's risky an update might revert what you've done.
    donhwyo likes this.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 16.5 to protect a 1Gbps fiber link for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post
    Yep. This is another very good reason to use a VM, since most hypervisors make it easy to specify a MAC address for the network adapters. You could do this in the base linux OS, too, but with Untangle it's risky an update might revert what you've done.

    I can vouche for this I hate it when ISP use your mac address and lock it to an ip
    Started Youtube Channel, Have a question about Untangle Ask me : jason @ jasonslab.ca
    https://www.youtube.com/c/jasonslabvideos << Please like and subscribe, helps me out !!

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