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  1. #91
    Untangle Ninja Mathiau's Avatar
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    lets not forget, it is all these free users who made untangle what it is today, with out them, this project would be dead....

  2. #92
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Correction, the free users haven't made anything of Untangle. They've contributed nothing, they've built nothing. Free users are leaches, and worth about as much.

    Untangle the company made this product, and they did it with major contributions of time, support, talent, and money made by many others. Some of which are still active some aren't.

    Free users aren't important, this community is.

    Heck if anything it would be nice if Untangle found a way to give "add free" subscriptions to contributors. I don't know how much difference that will make at the end of the day, because most of the contributors I see aorund these days are also resellers and the NFR removes all the ads.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  3. #93
    Untangle Ninja hescominsoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmorris View Post
    what he said

    Untangle is a great product. Astaro has a free version that they don't have any kind of ads in. I don't know the business model of UT but they(astaro) are doing something right...

  4. #94
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hescominsoon View Post
    Untangle is a great product. Astaro has a free version that they don't have any kind of ads in. I don't know the business model of UT but they(astaro) are doing something right...
    The answer there is charging a ludicrous sum to the people that pay. Astaro has a massive barrier to entry problem.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  5. #95
    Untangle Ninja raditude's Avatar
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    I have not tried out Astaro, it looks like a decent product from the brief research, although the "free" product does say for "home use", so "legally" installing in a business may have side effects (have not read the disclaimer but seems on the order of AVG Home, and Avast Home..etc), whereas UT allows for "home" or "business", both Free.

  6. #96
    Untangle Ninja hescominsoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    The answer there is charging a ludicrous sum to the people that pay. Astaro has a massive barrier to entry problem.
    As i said i don't know the UT's business plan...but if revenue is so hard to come by maybe they need to add some higher end features and charge appropriately for them? Would give them some vertical leverage.

  7. #97
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    That assessment is correct raditude, unless my own research is completely borked.

    I do like Astaro, it's a powerful product. I simply feel Untangle is a bit more flexible.

    However, Astaro does do something I really really really wish Untangle did...

    Astaro doesn't sell direct! All sales must go through a reseller, their channel is HUGE because of it.

    Then again, I can't complain about the margin Untangle gives us resellers to work with... so I really can't complain too loudly. The Untangle model works... it just isn't working given a recession that mirrors the great depression in a lot of ways. So now the company is in scramble mode?
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  8. #98
    Untangle Ninja raditude's Avatar
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    By the looks of it I am guessing they started with an "enterprise" product (big $$), and have whittled it down to the SMB/Home User market, thus charging big money for the hardware appliances..etc. Whereas UT started with the Home User/SMB, and some folks have taken it and implemented it into an "enterprise" organization (like colleges..etc), but the bulk of UT's market is Home User/SMB, backwards to Astaro.

    This would also explain the reseller channel only, compared to the direct sales approach, because if UT would have started reseller only, the market saturation would have taken much longer....

  9. #99
    mdh
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    Untangle Ninja mdh's Avatar
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    sky-knight,

    <subdued_rant>
    I'd like to comment (without starting a war) about your earlier post about free users. Almost all paid users started out as free users. Some made a transition to a paid model and some didn't. Some have made contributions of "various magnitude" and many haven't. Some have recommended Untangle to people who have become paid customers, and many haven't. There isn't much direct financial support from the free users but there is some indirect support AND the forums (which we are part of) are here primarily to support them. I would like to see more financial support coming in from the user base as a whole, but sometimes you just have to say "thank you" for what you get. You have made huge contributions here (for which I and many others say THANK YOU), but we have to remember that the forums were designed to support all users and not just the paid ones.
    </subdued_rant>

  10. #100
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    sky-knight,

    <subdued_rant>
    I'd like to comment (without starting a war) about your earlier post about free users. Almost all paid users started out as free users. Some made a transition to a paid model and some didn't. Some have made contributions of "various magnitude" and many haven't. Some have recommended Untangle to people who have become paid customers, and many haven't. There isn't much direct financial support from the free users but there is some indirect support AND the forums (which we are part of) are here primarily to support them. I would like to see more financial support coming in from the user base as a whole, but sometimes you just have to say "thank you" for what you get. You have made huge contributions here (for which I and many others say THANK YOU), but we have to remember that the forums were designed to support all users and not just the paid ones.
    </subdued_rant>
    I agree, and no flames are needed. It'd be an argument over semantics. People who use the open source product, and recommend it to others actively are contributors in my view. Part of the reason I support Untangle so much is precisely because this kind of support is possible. I don't have a zillon dollars in sales every year, I've only got a handful of paying clients myself.

    What I was trying to point out, is that the percentage of users that are essentially freeloading Untangle, is basically a constant. The insertion of advertising only makes sense because Untangle has a user base to advertise to. Because the ads aren't for Untangle themselves, but pay per click support mechanisms, I'm left to assume the volume of "free users" has reached the breaking point.

    If you're in these forums even attempting to help. If you're out there recommending Untangle to anyone for any reason. If you've bothered to take just 10 seconds of time to land some feedback somewhere to help us all move this product forward. You're not a freeloader, it doesn't take much to contribute.

    Monetary support isn't required of the users, but it is required if Untangle is to survive. Heck, if these ads had been in place a year ago they may have just prevented some job losses...

    And with all that... I'm starting to pull yet another topic off course.

    Free users aren't bad, but with "free" comes responsibility to aide the project. If you take it and run, you're just another leech.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

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