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  1. #11
    Master Untangler mozerd's Avatar
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    As a businessman first and foremost I fully understand the desire to generate persistent revenue streams to sustain the business. I would encourage Untangle to eliminate the FREE model -- and charge all users a minimum amount to purchase the service – let’s say $200 -- plus $200 per year thereafter for support and enhancements. IMO the Untangle Product is good enough to be effectively commercialized.

    As a UTM I cannot endorse any form of Ads.

  2. #12
    Untangle Junkie dmorris's Avatar
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    thanks for the feedback.

    all sites opened from the ads will be subject to filtering & scanning like all other traffic.

    ad blocker actually doesn't have a block page (it just closes the connection)
    spyware blocker will have ads (unless you have branding manager)
    Attention: Support and help on the Untangle Forums is provided by volunteers and community members like yourself.
    If you need Untangle support please call or email support@untangle.com

  3. #13
    Master Untangler
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozerd View Post
    As a businessman first and foremost I fully understand the desire to generate persistent revenue streams to sustain the business. I would encourage Untangle to eliminate the FREE model -- and charge all users a minimum amount to purchase the service Ė letís say $200 -- plus $200 per year thereafter for support and enhancements. IMO the Untangle Product is good enough to be effectively commercialized.

    As a UTM I cannot endorse any form of Ads.
    I can't see the "Open Source" label being kept if that happens. I am a big believer of UT, but consider the economy and in my case, state government. I am lucky to have a job and cannot justify going and asking my peers for money on a project that we have used for free. Maybe this is a way to weed out all of us free users who don't spend enough money? Granted I see how that doesn't put food on the developers table. I am sorry I don't have the answer for that, but I have to protect my job and tax payers money and would probably be told to just take it down. Yea, we have a 2 yr subscription though it isn't for much money. On a side note. How can I have my LAN staring at ads to shop somewhere on a blockpage for shopping? You do realize how much crap that would cause? Done with my rant and thanks for reading.

  4. #14
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Open Source doesn't mean free, and several predominant open source projects that are commercially backed use the advertisement support model. Heck, even Microsoft does this on certain applications, Microsoft Accounting Express anyone?

    I'd forgotten that the ads are URLs and that the subsequent click would generate a protected request for the client. Also, any graphics downloaded, shouldn't ever be cached to the Untangle server. Let the client download them normally, and the protection remains.

    Still given all of this... you realize that 30 seconds after you make this change, this forum will light up with an adjustment to the ad-blocker that will prevent the ad from displaying. Or a manual deny in the web filter, or even, a packet filter rule that prevents all connectivity to the Untangle farm. It isn't that hard to schedule a packet filter rule to turn on and off...

    So for the open source people in there that have actual skill, this system will be trivial to subvert and ignore. For the rest, you get some ads to click on.

    To be honest, I was wondering when this sort of thing would start. You guys can't offer bandwidth to feed automatic updates into the masses for free. It's simply too expensive to run that farm.

    But hey, thanks for picking a module for me to put on all of my machines. Branding will be an easier sell than the support.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  5. #15
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Sorry for the double post but since we're thinking along these lines...

    Why not add a footer to every mail scanned by Untangle?

    An outgoing SMTP scanner that doesn't do anything but insert the "This message certified by Untangle" at the bottom... I mean why not, all the AV vendors do it already.

    Heck in some cases they don't even let you turn it off after you buy the thing, not that I'm suggesting Untangle be that anal. Just pointing out that if the point of this process is to gain some exposure for the Untangle brand, I think the e-mail aspect is better than forcing adds into the hands of people that already know they have Untangle.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  6. #16
    Untangle Junkie dmorris's Avatar
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    We have considered things along those lines.
    We've considered things from having it forced on (until they buy branding manager) to just having it be a setting that free users can turn off if they wish. AVG and others have had success with this model and as long as we did it tastefully I think it could help us too.
    But we've held off on that thus far because it isn't necessarily trivial to modify the body of email messages on the fly like that and we spent that engineering effort elsewhere.
    Attention: Support and help on the Untangle Forums is provided by volunteers and community members like yourself.
    If you need Untangle support please call or email support@untangle.com

  7. #17
    Untangle Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmorris View Post

    could you send me a screenshot of the ad if you see it again?
    my understanding is that we shouldn't be showing any gambling ads but we're looking into it.
    I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around this.
    A security appliance serving third party ads.

    I still clearly remember the phone call I got from my Mom a bit ago, she was looking at a pop-up of a virus scan that said there were all these bad things on her computer, a pop up served by a third party ad on the New York Times website. I'm sure everyone remembers that. They even said it wasn't their fault, I maintain it is their fault, but regardless, no entity in this country takes responsibility for anything, it always someone else's fault.

    A security appliance delivering third party ads.....

    You guys can crosscheck my ip's and see there isn't one UT installation associated anymore, mainly because the clients don't like the reporting changes to v7, and the only thing I can tell them is that the principals posting on the forum are saying 'too bad, so sad', and guess what, 2 of them told me to get rid of it, then bucked up and paid for Astaro installs, I use it at home, it's free for home users for now, I can't sell Untangle, no one will buy it when they look at other projects, maybe I don't know how to sell, who knows.

    And then you guys slipped it into the upgrade as a bug?
    What's the bug, those damn freeloaders using the "open source" without paying?
    The nerve of them.

    We all have mortgages to pay, you guys too, but third party ads served by a security appliance, ads you apparently can't control.......

    As Rob says, there should be workarounds, but I don't see the relevance when you've ruined the trust, it's one thing to change the functionality but to open an avenue for a potential breach.....

    Look what the news is saying about Google and the Chinese, the Chinese managed to breach a hole designed to facilitate law enforcement supeona, and here's a security appliance, pushing out an update to start allowing the display of third party ads.

    Whatever, you guys have no reason to value my opinion, I"m not even sure why I spent this much time with this post, but I will say, for my home use, if I were to pay to use Untangle, I'd much rather pay for say, the Kaspersky module, than to have to buy the branding manager, something of actual value.

  8. #18
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    The ads are unpopular... but they could work. Spiceworks uses advertising to support itself, and it's a darn handy tool. I'm not against the ads in general, but they shouldn't be graphical.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  9. #19
    Untangle Ninja
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    I thought of the Spiceworks, I've used it, but Spice is not security oriented, it's convenience software. I'm not against ads, I generate income from ads, and I also run adblocker, go figure, but the issue here I don't see as the same. Perhaps I'm not understanding what's being done.

    Perhaps I need to take the time to throw my other UT hd into my home lan and see what's going on, but I'm really turned off on the whole affair now, and, I really don't have the time. Sigh.

    In reality, I should probably delete my posts.
    Last edited by fasttech; 01-14-2010 at 06:25 PM.

  10. #20
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Well the thing is... the add shows on the block page but your browser still has to request the data. So the ad is FILTERED BY UNTANGLE!

    It's really kind of odd to see the appliance filtering out trash from things it's supplying... but there it is. I hope that Untangle going forward will get the ads down to where they aren't obtrusive. Not that I have a complaint about what is there.. but I've seen the gambling ads myself. So it's really funny...

    Fortunately you only get them if you downloaded the ISO recently. So as with anything else... remember it's a 1.0 feature and move on.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

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