New Network Management has Led to Copier Woes

[j.razz1]

So, I took the plunge and upgraded our router set Untangle box. As a matter of fact, I built a custom box to replace the old one (it wasn't able to handle VOIP traffic very well). So I built a quad core, 8 gig, dual intel NIC (10/100/1000) card computer. In addition, I moved from Untangle 9.x to 10 64bit. The install went without a hitch... almost. But support remoted in and took care of the issue in no time. I ran another issue by them since I had their ear and that's where this post begins.

Once the new Untangle box was set up, the VOIP issue was gone! Check, now I can make the drive back across the state and chalk another ticket solved. But wait, there's a printing issue. This came to light on the following Monday. Some users were having lengthy delays in printing while others could print okay some times. The issue was hit or miss and would randomly affect those in the office more often than not. I ran this by support and they helped me set up a bypass rule (two of them actually). One to the copier via IP and one from the copier via IP. This made no difference. The problem persisted. So, I did what any reasonable IT guy would do- I asked one of the employees on site to run a long Cat6 cable (that I left there from doing some testing a few weeks before this happened) from the copier directly to our switch. I got an email back within 30 minutes saying that all was well.

Fast forward to the next day and my help desk started growing with tickets pertaining to printing again. The issue had returned. So now I think it's the copier itself and just an unlikely coincidence. But, being the swell IT guy that I am, I ask another "favor" of an employee there. I ask them to disconnect the new Untangle box (the amount of vocabulary I had to use, I will spare you) and reconnect the old Untangle box. While it only consisted of two ethernet cables and a power cord, it is quite intimidating for someone who isn't technologically savvy.

With over the phone support being provided to the employee, we get the old box transplanted back into the system and I ask them to test out printing for the next several days and let me know the verdict. Well, today they reported back that they have no printing issues nor have had any since setting back up the old Untangle box. However, their voice quality is not so great.

So, seeing how these have been set up with the exact same settings (minus the bypass rule for the copier)- both were DHCP servers, both were utilizing the lite package of racks with only WebFilter Lite, Spyware Blocker, Virus Blocker Lite, and Reports being on, I wouldn't think it to be an issue with Untangle. But the momen we switched, all was well in copier world.

The copier is locally installed on each PC through software included with the copier. It has a static IP address. The DHCP does not issue IP assigned to the static (I have it set to issue from another range of numbers not containing the copier and a few other pieces of equipment on the network). The network is flat. I can't think of anything else to add. I just want to know what I might be missing in the settings or if there is something new in version 10 that is turned on (or off) by default that isn't on 9.

[sky-knight]

If the stations are on the same IP network as the printer, and they have local printers configured to print directly to the printer's IP address...

You do realize that Untangle has nothing to do with the print transaction?

So... I'm not sure what you're wanting help with. The fact that Untangle "changed" is irrelevant to the printing issue. You swapped the DHCP server, EVERY CLIENT "changed". Did one of them attempt to use the same address as the printer? Did one of them attempt to use the same address as another client?

When replacing the DHCP server you need to reboot EVERYTHING.

[j.razz1]

Hi Sky-knight. That was my thought exactly. Untangle had nothing to do with it. But, and this is a big but, when we hooked back up the old untangle box, all was well. Yes. I did ipconfig /release /renew so they would get the new IP's, or I had them do it I should say. The copier was restarted multiple times and this went on over a period of a week. Once we hooked the new untangle box back up, we went right back to having printing problems. Remove the new untangle box, printing problems gone.

The printer has a static IP. The DHCP server does not assign addresses within the copiers range- so no assigning to other PC's, no assigning a new one to the copier.

So, what I'm wanting help with is to get a few more minds on this to help me narrow down the problem. Based on process of elimination and based on the bypass rule, it would seem that Untangle has nothing to do with it. However, the fact that I went from version 9 to version 10, there are differences in the software- so I'm just hoping I missed something simple... but it's appearing that this isn't the case. And yes, it would seem that Untangle would have nothing to do with it. But again, that is the only variable in the equation. New box connected- poor copier communication. Old box connected- print all day long.

[sky-knight]

We can go round and round, or you can go to the site and troubleshoot.

How are the clients configured to print to the printer?
How is the printer configured to communicate with the network?
Does the printer have some sort of reporting software it needs to connect to the main network on the far side of the VPN tunnel?

There are 1000 things that can make this happen, none of it has to do with Untangle specifically. But when you say "both Untangle's are configured the same" I'm forced to call "bull ****". Why? Because... well I just went through a problem "like this" that was taking down an entire network, it was all Untangle's fault... Until the admin in question noticed he had configured external on the "new" Untangle wrong.

The only way IP communications from your clients to your printer on a flat network, behind Untangle, is interfered with by Untangle, is because you goofed something up.

Now, you mentioned "copiers range" what does that mean?

[j.razz1]

It may be bull****, but I can't find the stench. I'm happy to eat my words, but I haven't found the flies yet.

However, if you have some ideas on where the problem might lie, that would be great. Again, everything works as expected- except printing. So, Im not immune to making mistakes- I just can't find the needle in this haystack. Again, that's why I posted here, on a user help forum, looking for ideas to remedy this issue.

The clients use software from the copier maker that runs, finds the printer on the network, installs the appropriate drivers and then, like magic, it prints.

The printer is assigned a static IP, pointed to the gateway (untangle) with the right subnet for our network.

There is no vpn tunnel. There is only one local network for that office- there are no vlans / subnets.

Copier's range: I IP addresses I have reserved for equipment I have designated as static including the copier.

So, do you, or anyone else, have any ideas about where we can look given that the only affected network traffic involved the copier.

As it stands, I will have one of them to re-install the copier software after deleting it with the new box connected to see if that resolves the issue.

[sky-knight]

You need to look at the IP configuration of the printer, and a single affected client and find the fault. There has to be one.

Have you tried removing the default gateway from the printer? Force the thing to be a local device, it can't communicate with anything but the local IP network.

Everything you need to do must be done physically on site. I'm not calling it "bull ****" to be insulting, I'm just pointing out that situations like this are usually a single character typo, a configuration transposition, something so earth shatteringly stupid that you're simply over looking it. And the worst part? NO ONE CAN HELP YOU!

Because unless I drove to the site for you, and put a fresh set of eyes on it... I can't see enough to offer anything meaningful. No one else on any forum or over the phone will be able to do anything better. All we can do is act as a sounding board as you gather evidence and offer specific suggestions as you make each step.

[j.razz1]

All we can do is act as a sounding board as you gather evidence and offer specific suggestions as you make each step.

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the input and the suggestion of removing the gateway on the printer. These are things I can do remotely as I can access the copier's control panel via it's IP address.

I'll report back the remedy once I come across it.

[sky-knight]

Yes but once you remove the gateway, the printer won't respond remotely anymore. So be ready to bounce off a local station to get it back!

[j.razz1]

Thanks sky-knight!

[donhwyo]

Does untangle provide the dns for local machines? Are the print drivers set to a name or ipaddress?