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  1. #1
    Untangler yonnie's Avatar
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    Default Practical advice for isp setup desired

    I need to setup an isp service. Am looking for some assistance from anyone here who has experience with this. Such as how to get a real connection to the internet without going through a third party, various types of equipment to look for and various types of software.

    Especially tips on what to avoid and how.

    Actual connection is still to be determined. We have a fiber pipeline nearby, there is also microwave dishes nearby. So depending on which one the phone company will allow us to tap into will determine what equipment we'll use. Maybe there is an alternative to the phone company?

    The initial network is a cable tv system, suggestions on what equipment to use for that would also be welcome. (it's an eight mile grid, connects about 1 thousand homes)

    verizon has done nothing with the fiber cable in 10 years, we believe this area will never have dsl unless we do it ourselves. This is a community effort.

    Of course, we'll be using Untangle but have no idea how to hook it into a network with that many users.

  2. #2
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    By using multiple UT servers or VM's that route traffic in a way to make sure you don't exceed 250 concurrent requests.

    As far as the connection goes, you are at the mercy of whatever telco owns the area. Their routing equipment does not only the phones but Internet backbone as well. But, you should be buying at wholesale rates.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  3. #3
    Untangler yonnie's Avatar
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    Hoping there would be a few more suggestions. But this is a good start.

    How would I go about limiting requests to <250 per Untangle box? Or did I misinterpret that?

    Is there a rule of thumb for assessing what size of service to purchase or lease? Let's say I want to provide for 400 users at 1.54mbs each.

    Should I expect less expensive rates from a CLEC or from one of the big-boys like AT&T?
    Last edited by yonnie; 06-06-2008 at 07:16 AM.

  4. #4
    Master Untangler
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    Before I explain anything.. What is your actuall budget?

  5. #5
    Untangler yonnie's Avatar
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    After we discover costs, then we'll put together a budget.

  6. #6
    Master Untangler
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    Well, just one router alone to handle such a project costs around $100,000. You'll need at least 2. Switches are in the $1000 range. You might beable to get away with a T3 with 400 people at 1.5mbps, which is around 8k+ a month. Don't forget about line leases, alot more equipment, building lease, permits, employees, contractors, people that know what they are doing, etc.

    To start up, you'll probably be around the half million dollar range, and that's a really low estimate.

    As far as where does untangle fit in this? IDK, sell it to the end user. It will have no place in the ISP directly.

    You might have a little more luck trying to do a wireless ISP if the geography allows you to without running too many repeters. Cost wise, the same or more.

    Honestly, do this instead.
    http://go.gethughesnet.com/

  7. #7
    Untangler yonnie's Avatar
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    I checked out hughes a month ago. I sent in a request for quote on their business satellite (forget the model# number now, the one advertised on their business website) and some guy called back the very next day! But he had no clue what that satellite dish/system was or the cost and couldn't get info on it. What he wanted to sell me was the Hughes equivalent of wildblue, which is completely inadequate and sux real-big-time! I even tried the phone lines and couldn't get a hughes rep. who knew anything about the for business systems. All they want to do is push the low-end crap for consumers. Any company that is that disorganized is not a company that I would ever want to do business with. They are almost as bad as Verizon.

    One of the real big problems with satellite is during heavy load periods, you get halfway or most of the way through a fair-sized download and get an error and have to start over. Then you get hammered by their FAP and you're always having to put up with the latency issue. Even when it's their fault, it's always your fault.

    Most of the people here who need access can't see the southern sky so satellite is not an option. The ones that can see that part of the sky already have satellite and are begging to donate their dishes to the scrap yard. The rest use dial-up. I'm lucky, I just happen to be on the very fringe of an evdo tower but those on the other side of the hill are just sol.

    If a decent system is going to cost $100k, oh well, guess we'll have to do some car washes and bake-offs.

  8. #8
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Or you could.. granted I know you hate Verizon...

    If you have EVDO in range, you could subsidize Verizon to install another repeater tower.. that would blanket the area in EVDO... That process would be cheaper I think than a new ISP.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  9. #9
    Master Untangler
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    Quote Originally Posted by yonnie View Post
    I checked out hughes a month ago. I sent in a request for quote on their business satellite (forget the model# number now, the one advertised on their business website) and some guy called back the very next day! But he had no clue what that satellite dish/system was or the cost and couldn't get info on it. What he wanted to sell me was the Hughes equivalent of wildblue, which is completely inadequate and sux real-big-time! I even tried the phone lines and couldn't get a hughes rep. who knew anything about the for business systems. All they want to do is push the low-end crap for consumers. Any company that is that disorganized is not a company that I would ever want to do business with. They are almost as bad as Verizon.

    One of the real big problems with satellite is during heavy load periods, you get halfway or most of the way through a fair-sized download and get an error and have to start over. Then you get hammered by their FAP and you're always having to put up with the latency issue. Even when it's their fault, it's always your fault.

    Most of the people here who need access can't see the southern sky so satellite is not an option. The ones that can see that part of the sky already have satellite and are begging to donate their dishes to the scrap yard. The rest use dial-up. I'm lucky, I just happen to be on the very fringe of an evdo tower but those on the other side of the hill are just sol.

    If a decent system is going to cost $100k, oh well, guess we'll have to do some car washes and bake-offs.
    Honestly, since DSL is limited to around 15,000 ft, you'll have to do wireless ISP.

    Still, when it's all said and done.. you're looking at around 1.5 million dollars turn key.

  10. #10
    Master Untangler
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    Or you could.. granted I know you hate Verizon...

    If you have EVDO in range, you could subsidize Verizon to install another repeater tower.. that would blanket the area in EVDO... That process would be cheaper I think than a new ISP.
    That's the best idea I've heard in a while!!

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