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  1. #51
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Because once again I repeat, the other options that are actually comparable cost the same $1 / device / year.

    If you're going elsewhere because you want more, that's irrational. But, it's still your call to make.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  2. #52
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    I just don't understand why they would want to lose (easy) money with the home user segment. By limiting our home use devices, they've done just that. Most home users would pay their $50 annually and require very little support other than some occasional forum questions in the beginning or as they came across new features. Why make the licenses more restrictive for home users? In today's world, 50 devices is not OK for home users. Of course, this is all my opinion.

  3. #53
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think you're not understanding what I'm saying...

    There are NO OTHER OPTIONS on the market that do what Untangle does at a lower price point. So why would they offer a lower price point? 50 devices is PLENTY for many home users, myself and my business partner are evidence.

    Now, you can continue to blather about $100, and I've given you far more than $100 in my time in this tread alone. So... Enjoy I suppose? Because I'm done. You're just wanting free stuff after spending so much more on the crap you want "to be protected from".

    How about just not purchasing garbage devices that threaten your network? That's by far the least expensive option.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  4. #54
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    I'm not wanting free stuff... period. I don't think that the 50 device limit is reasonable for a home user, especially since they used to not impose the same license restrictions. Thank you for your time, but Untangle should be thanking you much more.

    At the end of the day, most home users will be just fine without the Untangle offerings, but I would be willing to pay if I didn't have to worry about the 50 device limit. 50 vs 150 is not ok on an annual basis.

  5. #55
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    That's a patently unrealistic expectation. As annoying as per device licensing is, you simply cannot engage the APIs you need to do the work Untangle does without one. I'm honestly floored Untangle ever offered the license in that format, and obviously it became an issue because they stopped selling it that way.

    But for those of us stuck on the outside in, that know how the industry works... We rather expected this turn of events. That's why I'm not worked up about it. I'm annoyed I can't SELL the home subs, just like I can't sell Microsoft M365 Personal for Family... or resell Dell Inspiron laptops. It means I have to offer a more expensive solution to home users... OR attempt to get them to pay me for all the time it takes me to walk them through buying all this crap themselves. Which they screw up, and in turn balk at paying for more time to fix it all.

    It's not a good customer experience, and there's jack I can do about any of it. But Untangle doing a per device price? That's fine! And if you think $50 for 50 devices is expensive, I suggest you take a peek at what my paying business customers pay per device. You're getting a bloody steal... but if you don't see the value in what it is, then that's that. There's no forcing anything here.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sclawrenc View Post
    I'm not wanting free stuff... period.
    That's good to hear. I looked at pfSense, OPNSense etc before I went with Untangle but the reality is that to get anywhere near the same level of functionality that Untangle provides, you have to pay for add-ons etc that all end up costing a lot more than $50/year. If you don't pay for those things on *Sense, then you may still get a lot of features, but they don't really match up to Untangle, so it's worth considering that when you make your comparisons.

    I get that it feels nice to have everything covered and not worry about device limits etc, but like others have said... It's not always 100% needed. Untangle is a professional product that happens to have a licence for home use, which is not quite the same as catering to home users per-se. The expectation is that you're going to use all the tools and techniques at your disposal to maximise your security posture, of which Untange is just one.

    I reckon if you look at your network again, you'll be able to figure out how to make 50 active devices work. Try and get away from the feeling that if they're not all going though Untangle's apps that you're somehow lacking something or protected less. Sometimes less is more.

  7. #57
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    Thank sky-knight and Armshouse for your time and comments.

    Maybe (probably?), I'm not fully understanding all of the capabilities of the Untangle offerings. If I don't fully understand, it's going to be harder for me to see the value.

    For a home network with the standard needs of working remotely, gaming, virtual learning, and some sort of parental controls, how exactly does Untangle stand apart from the competition? I believe Sophos XG and OPNSense have free offerings (Sensei) that do allow some of the same layer 7 stuff.

    I do believe once I make a decision, I will stick with it for at least 2-3 years which is why I'm spending the time now to understand more.

  8. #58
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    https://www.sunnyvalley.io/plans/

    Sensei is comparable to Untangle, but while you can get content control on the free plan, you cannot configure it! It does what it's set to do and no more. Getting the Home plan so you can actually tune the thing is $100, which is priced at $1 / device / year. The exact same price as Untangle. The only difference is Untangle gives you two options, one at 50, and the next at 150, and Sensei is right in the middle.

    Note, I'm also a reseller of Sensei. I know both products quite well. Untangle is far more mature at this time. BUT, with the way things are changing I will say that Untangle should see that product's existence as a warning shot. Assuming it's actually successful at gaining a foot hold in the marketplace, it has all the makings of an Untangle killer. It is not such yet, but it has the potential to become one.

    P.S. You can't bypass things with Sensei, so you're licensing all devices all the time. Untangle gives you the choice.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  9. #59
    Master Untangler
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    I was on Sophos XG before I moved to Untangle. It was a Sophos UTM, so was paying 200ish a year for fewer features than I get with Untangle at $50/year.

    The interface looks nice and some of the groupings of hosts, services, ports etc they allow you to do make creating policies pretty flexible and I like the way that if you're running their endpoint products on your devices (and you're prepared to pay for it) that there can be some intelligence between them, but you're not gonna get that at $50 or even $150.

    Oh... and let's not even mention the own-goal in the form SQL injection vulns that their product suffered from - game over.

  10. #60
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    I sympathize with the OP about the device limit. I purchased without noticing it and am over the limit by direct count. For me it really is about value per dollar and Untangle still meets that with some caveats.

    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    He's talking about using another NAT device to hide devices. Because anything beyond a NAT router will present as a single IP address to Untangle, and therefore subvert the device based licensing enforcement.

    This will also prevent any attempt at using mDNS, and can cause other headaches. So, beware there be dragons here.
    This is what I have done. For IOT it makes a lot of sense. Don't need all the features of Untangle fro them. Have enough features to protect the router serving them. Should untangle change this or the value proposition of the protection features when doing this, as I told Untangle sales directly, you change the value proposition significantly when you approach the $200 year mark. In fact at $150 I don't think I'd stay with UT, I'd probably move to a competitor that I can license for a bit more but get more in the process.

    All in all OP I'm new and I'd say stay with UT. I spent 3 weeks researching this. Though I REALLY wish my research last October had led me to purchase. I'd be on the old license. Oh well.


    P.S. Let's not call using a NAT'd router behind Untangle subverting anything. UT's licensing agreement lays out the explicit agreement under how they count devices. There is no way as written they didn't understand. It's therefore not subvertin anything. It's following the letter of the license through network architecture.
    Last edited by fatman13; 03-01-2021 at 07:45 AM.
    donhwyo and sclawrenc like this.

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