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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loudog2 View Post
    Honestly, $150 for protect plus is not bad with WireGuard and threat prevention included.
    Don‘ forget Virus Blocker with Bitdefender engine. I know it‘s not the most advanced app in times of encrypted traffic, but if you‘d inspect, you have it now (was 108$/yr before).

  2. #82
    Untangle Ninja
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    If my social security goes up 300% I might look at renewing! How about a senior discount?

    As for wireguard I will set up a vm.

    It would be interesting to see how many users you lose because of these changes. Especially since word of mouth is the only marketing I have ever seen.

    This is the worst thing since trying to sell ads instead of blocking them. This will probably fail that bad as well.

    Thanks for over 12 years of a nice product.
    mikeyscott, klieber, ncksh and 1 others like this.

  3. #83
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    Oct 2020
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    Not to pile on, but I'll pile on: as a relatively new Untangle subscriber, these changes suck. 50 devices is an absolute joke in the ages of iPads and smart watches and IOTs and whatnot. Also, sticking the "good" VPN options in the Plus version is a crappy thing to do. You should never make your users pay more for good security and wireguard, in particular, is something you shouldn't be charging more for. You didn't write it - it's an option that's built into the Linux kernel. All you did was slap a GUI atop of it and there are other options for Wireguard GUIs that don't cost an unreasonable amount of money.

    I had just purchased a 5-year version of HomePro a month or so ago, so I'll ride that out and see where the market is at that point. But you've really alienated me as a customer with these recent moves. I'll move my wireguard solution to a VM and/or just buy a raspberry pi. I assure you, however, that I won't give you another dollar of my money as a result of these changes.

    Specific changes I'd like to see (and I fully expect untangle to ignore):

    • Change the device limits from 50/150 to 150/300
    • Move wireguard, in particular, to the "Basic" version.


    Want to make more money? Consider offering value-added services that sit atop your firewall product. Dynamic DNS that's fully-integrated into the product, for example. Make it easier/better than the DDNS options already there and people will be willing to pay a reasonable price for it.

    Provide some tailored filtering targeted towards parents trying to get some control over their kids browsing habits. (Similar to Circle) Yes, I can do much of that already with the tools available to me, but I have to set it all up myself. Give me an easy way to check some boxes and click a few buttons and, *boom*, my kid's devices are locked down and I'm willing to pay more for that.

    More creative thinking will yield untangle the additional revenue they so clearly crave from all of this without pissing off a decent chunk of your customer base.

    [EDIT] For anyone using unraid at home, the dynamix wireguard plugin offers an experience that is just as easy as the untangle GUI. Took me about 10 minutes to set up and that's only because I read through some of the more advanced options that unraid exposes which untangle doesn't. Highly recommended.
    Last edited by klieber; 11-21-2020 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Point people at other options for wireguard.
    Brutos, mikeyscott and pprior like this.

  4. #84
    Untanglit
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    Jan 2017
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    Speak for yourself. I have never misused or abused my license - being painted with that brush is dangerous and excusing corporate greed saying that people who are paying - what they are required to pay for a product and then complaining when there are now limitations and 3x more cost for essentially the ability to continue to run their network that were running fine yesterday is a valid criticism.
    Sam Graf likes this.

  5. #85
    Untangle Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cferra View Post
    …a valid criticism.
    There is no universe where there are no valid criticisms of what has happened. Hopefully no one actually believes there is. Certainly there are good things going on here, but when some customers suffer loss, there are necessarily valid criticisms.

  6. #86
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    I mean you can be sad you have to spend more, but the contract says you get these things until the end of the subscription timer and no further. (This makes monthly things rather dangerous!)

    There's no guarantee any subscription provider is going to hold their prices past the subscription period. Of course, general changes to that structure tends to result in a customer exodus... but in this case it's apparent that Untangle cannot continue offering that subscription at that price level. If that was possible, they'd not have moved to HomePro with very different terms, and then made the most recent change.

    My worry about the most recent changes lies in the lack of 5 year subscriptions. This is a subtext to me that says Untangle is feeling trouble on the horizon, and I might be chasing renewals in a few years at hiked prices instead of simply selling new subscriptions at the new price level as has been the historical norm. But, until that actually happens I'm not going to get worked up over it. 2020 has brought plenty of problems to my table with out artificially adding more.

    But to claim the change is rampant corporate greed? I'm sorry that has no actual support. The fees for Home Protect Plus are minuscule compared to the commercial access rates to the same features. And again other products in this space have similar prices. So I'm right back to this being a perceived value problem. And if you don't perceive the new options as valuable, you change products. All this comes across as is a pure childish whine, and illustrates why Untangle perhaps shouldn't have ever done home subscriptions at all.

    Besides what will you change to? I'm honestly curious... because given what Untangle does there's nothing out there that even comes close to the value per dollar even the new increased prices provide.
    Last edited by sky-knight; 11-21-2020 at 05:51 PM.
    Marty_B and Bollar like this.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  7. #87
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    Besides what will you change to? I'm honestly curious... because given what Untangle does there's nothing out there that even comes close to the value per dollar even the new increased prices provide.
    I agree. Yes I would like it to be be cheaper, but for what you get, its still a good value.

  8. #88
    Untanglit
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    Jan 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    I mean you can be sad you have to spend more, but the contract says you get these things until the end of the subscription timer and no further. (This makes monthly things rather dangerous!)

    There's no guarantee any subscription provider is going to hold their prices past the subscription period. Of course, general changes to that structure tends to result in a customer exodus... but in this case it's apparent that Untangle cannot continue offering that subscription at that price level. If that was possible, they'd not have moved to HomePro with very different terms, and then made the most recent change.

    My worry about the most recent changes lies in the lack of 5 year subscriptions. This is a subtext to me that says Untangle is feeling trouble on the horizon, and I might be chasing renewals in a few years at hiked prices instead of simply selling new subscriptions at the new price level as has been the historical norm. But, until that actually happens I'm not going to get worked up over it. 2020 has brought plenty of problems to my table with out artificially adding more.

    But to claim the change is rampant corporate greed? I'm sorry that has no actual support. The fees for Home Protect Plus are minuscule compared to the commercial access rates to the same features. And again other products in this space have similar prices. So I'm right back to this being a perceived value problem. And if you don't perceive the new options as valuable, you change products. All this comes across as is a pure childish whine, and illustrates why Untangle perhaps shouldn't have ever done home subscriptions at all.

    Besides what will you change to? I'm honestly curious... because given what Untangle does there's nothing out there that even comes close to the value per dollar even the new increased prices provide.
    I'm sorry if you feel that my criticism and concern for the fact that now it costs triple than it did yesterday to do the same thing comes across as childish to you, however - what additional costs are to untangle there that aren't already going to be there - even with my old subscription simply existing? The fact that they want to extract more money for the same thing, is at its very core a price hike - and the sheer multiple of that hike is greedy - 3X -- 3X. If I could have bought a perpetual license, I would have however there was none offered and software itself is moving to a SaaS model where perpetual licenses aren't a thing any more.. don't get me started on that.

    The heart of my issue is this.. I bought a product with an understanding of the feature set, used that to base an entire home network around.. and now, they are EOLing my subscription and effectively asking for TRIPLE the price for me to simply continue to use my network. That is a ransom to me, and not to mention that now, I have to be conscious of how many devices I now can place in my home?

    Untangle has always put any module with actual utility behind the paywall in the first place - that's fine - that's why I paid for it, where other products typically a free / community edition that often has the same functionality as the full version - with just community support.. with untangle, even when paying as a home user, we only get community support, so where is the additional cost to them there?

    The new device limitations here are completely arbitrary - there is no additional costs that untangle has to bare if someone has 150, or 151 devices, they simply want to be paid for more. That might be a cost that a business can swallow - but for a home user, its a bit much, which is why it was offered as unlimited in the first place.

    I get that you might be a reseller and you don't want to rock the boat here - and that's fine, remember I am not a reseller or a corporation - I am a legitimate home user - one that has never abused the the license terms (as others on this thread might think people with a home license might have - believe me, untangle would know if such abuses took place) with a home user budget not a corporate expense account, and to call my concerns and criticism a "childish whine" is frankly disrespectful and honestly offensive.

    The same can be said for any company that does this, gets you hooked and paying and then changes the terms of that agreement, its all cash grabs and the fact that we all allow it to happen means that it will continue to happen..

    There are free products out there that are disjointed to be sure, I COULD switch to pfsense or opnsense, coupled with pi-hole or adguard home and nxfilter and use something like unraid and docker to setup the rest, but again, I bought this product and I based everything on IT. I shouldn't have to think about switching, but now.. here I am.

    I hope for some altruism from untangle here and I hope that they continue to grandfather the subscription that I and I am sure at least a few other loyal and obviously earlier adopters and backers of the company find themselves in.
    Last edited by Cferra; 11-22-2020 at 02:43 AM.
    donhwyo likes this.

  9. #89
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    United Kingdom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cferra View Post

    The heart of my issue is this.. I bought a product with an understanding of the feature set, used that to base an entire home network around.. and now, they are EOLing my subscription and effectively asking for TRIPLE the price for me to simply continue to use my network. That is a ransom to me, and not to mention that now, I have to be conscious of how many devices I now can place in my home?
    I'm potentially in the same boat as you, but as far as I understand it, if you want to keep renewing your existing HomePro subscription the way it is, that's doable (which is what I'll probably do unless I reeeeally can't live without WireGuard or TP)... You just can't BUY a fresh subscription like that any more - it's now called Home Protect Plus and costs 3x more. Or have I misunderstood?

    I wouldn't go so far as to say your gripe was a childish whine, but it seems what the majority are complaining about is that Untangle has realised that $50 was way too cheap. I mean... if you want that price point, then there are plenty of consumer offerings out there, but as we all know... They don't let you do what Untangle does - that's why we went for something that was more "Pro", but we obviously don't want to pay enterprise prices for that - but yeah, I get it... I'd rather pay $50/yr than $150 too if I was a new customer or setting up another install, but that ship has sailed.

    I came to Untangle because I was having to pay a lot more than $150 to keep subs up on other pro firewalls. I looked at Pfsense and the others and chose Untangle because whilst those others were largely free, you still needed to pay subs to various third parties to get any of the real utilities. Untangle at $50 was way cheaper and I was actually surprised at how cheap that was - to the point that I almost didn't go for it because I thought that maybe at that price, it was a bit of a Mickey Mouse piece of software. Only by checking this forum out did I find out that this was not the case.

    I think we should just be thankful that we got all that value for a great price as long as we did and not crucify Untangle for realising that they were selling it too cheap - they're not running a charity.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armshouse View Post
    I think we should just be thankful that we got all that value for a great price as long as we did and not crucify Untangle for realising that they were selling it too cheap - they're not running a charity.
    Just to keep the publicly known facts in front of us, this is what Heather said in this thread:

    Home Pro users can continue with their subscriptions. We have not set a date to EOL Home Pro. We will be doing an EOL for the very very old, Home Complete packages, which is a couple of versions back. So if you like your Home Pro subscription, it will still renew.

    Home Pro is a reset to us. We spent a lot of time on feedback.untangle.com reaching out personally, and running surveys and asking for how our partners would prefer us to make more apps available. Home Protect is not intended to try and be Home Pro at all. It's a step back to review what our home users are really looking for. The two packages are based on feedback that fits the majority cases. Of course, we'll never nail it so that everyone has exactly what they need, but we've been listening and Home Protect is entirely based on customer feedback.
    As part of the reset, EOLing a license is now in the licensing stream. Note that the EOL date for HomePro has not been set. Obviously at this point, with the concept of EOLing a license now in the stream, no one is going to say that HomePro will not be EOLed, only that a date for that has not been set.

    As part of the reset, customers played the key role in shaping the home offerings. Nothing is said about selling anything too cheap. I personally don't agree with the "corporate greed" characterization, but that's not actually a criticism of the home licensing situation in this thread. That's really just a stab at defining the motivations behind the changes. I'm not qualified to judge the motivations of Heather and company, so I personally won't go there. But I can read public statements, and these statements are the facts as we have them. Anything else, for or against the changes, is speculation.

    EDIT: I should be clear about the fact that I think the first sentence of Heather's second paragraph has a typo in it. The only way that sentence made clear sense to me was to read it as "Home Pro[tect] is a reset to us."
    Last edited by Sam Graf; 11-22-2020 at 07:00 AM. Reason: Clarification

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