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  1. #21
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    I think of it this way:

    Using an unsupported operating system is like going out in a leaky boat and hoping not to get wet.

    Of course, if you extend the analogy, supported operating systems often have leaks, too. But at least you get tools and material for patching them, buckets to bail with, and life-jackets as a fail-safe The unsupported OS would lack those things.
    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 01-05-2020 at 01:46 PM.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 15.1.0 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  2. #22
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    So if that analogy actually trumps all context, then you're suggesting I must spend nontrivial money, up to hardware replacement, to safely accomplish my trivial goal.

    That's clear incentive to abandon my goal and to return to my original plan of getting a boat from an entirely different boat maker.

  3. #23
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Oh, no.

    I manage a fleet of about 250 stations, and after next week we're still gonna have about 9 stations running Win7 (give or take... a couple cases may or may not yet be able to upgrade), and we have 4 installations still running XP.

    But everyone single one of those is documented, has a specific purpose -- often running a legacy application or connected to specialized hardware, and in most cases isolated to a separate vlan. All but one of the XP stations are even completely removed from regular internet access, and one of the others now exists only as a VM.

    This is more about knowing what you're getting into.
    Last edited by jcoehoorn; 01-05-2020 at 03:16 PM.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 15.1.0 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  4. #24
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Yep, I've still got XP/2003 in a few places, it's strange that my fleet has no Win7. One shop I work for has XP/2003 in an isolated context, and everything else is Win10/2016. All the Win7/2008 and Win8/2012 stuff is gone, but we still have those three XP/2003 platforms sitting there...

    You want to talk about risk!
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post
    This is more about knowing what you're getting into.
    And your analogy suggests I'm contemplating getting into a leaky boat with no buckets and no life jackets.

    When in reality, I was contemplating getting into a 10 year old boat (well past its shakedown cruise) that was well cared for and in good shape but that will soon be without warranty or insurance. The boat itself, initially at least, isn't as great a risk as how I use it--in this case, for occasional sightseeing trips in good weather.

    Since I started this thread acknowledging reservations, I had some idea of the risks involved. I was curious if the risks could be mitigated for very specific and limited, if not documented purposes. I've got my answer. Thanks to those who helped me think it through.
    Last edited by Sam Graf; 01-05-2020 at 04:36 PM.

  6. #26
    Untangle Ninja jcoehoorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Graf View Post
    When in reality, I was contemplating getting into a 10 year old boat (well past its shakedown cruise) that was well cared for and in good shape but that will soon be without warranty or insurance.
    If only! Unfortunately things aren't that nice. All boats (operating systems) leak. We're just normally able to manage those leaks in a relatively safe way. And for Windows 7, that ability is suddenly ending.
    Five time Microsoft ASP.Net MVP managing a Lenovo RD330 / E5-2420 / 16GB with Untangle 15.1.0 to protect 500Mbits for ~450 residential college students and associated staff and faculty

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoehoorn View Post
    If only! Unfortunately things aren't that nice.
    Of course not. But you're not acknowledging at all that I already talked about mitigating steps to extend the life of this machine for a very specific purpose for a potentially limited time. That's what I meant by my reality.

    I'm not spending $140 or more to address your leaky boat analogy because I'm not convinced my reality actually possesses any great risk to anything but the machine in question (if that) dedicated to a trivial task. That's my point.

    That said, my question is answered. I'll repurpose the machine as originally planned.
    Last edited by Sam Graf; 01-05-2020 at 06:05 PM.

  8. #28
    Untangle Ninja f1assistance's Avatar
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    Idiocracy! So much of what's really going on about our digital world is completely missed in this discussion. Personal computing really never was about your convenience, but another way to manage the people which has been going on for millennium. If we don't realize our binary world is about data collection and surveillance by now, and tasked by all Giant Tech, the State, and business of size, then you're un-awake. Sky-knight (below) touch on it briefly, but also exposed their intentional slight-of-hand missed by most. Microsoft [and others] have publicly stated (constantly telling us what they do) you are licensed to use their software and services as they deem appropriate with its "purchase" or install, but in the end it is and always will be Microsoft's. They've also publicly stated they will surveil and collect whatever they think necessary to curtail 'hate speak" (whatever that is) in real time, in ALL their products and services offered. Let that sink in... (this last one (hate) is supposed to comfort the majority of today's 'awoke' herd).

    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    All that spooky telemetry everyone hates has directly contributed to a better product. Not saying we don't still have privacy issues, because regulators have been... well let's just say ignorant about the issue for far too long. And the systems in question don't really have trust built into them, but none of this is new, nor is it something you avoid by staying on Windows 7... because a current patched Win7 has Win10s spyware in it!
    There's a specific intention why Microsoft wants everyone on Windows 10, for free or if you'd like to send $$. It is about the telemetry stupid! It is all about the telemetry! Whether Apple, Alphabet, Blackberry, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. they want you and your life moving to and from their matrix, this exactly why all healthcare data will very rapidly and soon also be in and accessed from their control. Privacy has and always will be a delusion! Your programing let you think their was actually such an illusion, but there never really is/was. On another note; do you think it coincidence the majority of the public interweb is build on Linux? Huh! You must know Linux the controllers favorite OS right?
    Patterns absolutely matter you habitual creature! Now you try and imagine what tools you'd need to manage the global herd...the IoT w/5G our next immediate migration, and as with Y2K, and a similar supposed Intel chip hardware flaw, move to their next platform you will, without choice. Fear is what moves the herd, they know it, you should understand how they use it. Okay, I'm done, go back to sleep, nothing to see here. D'oh!
    Last edited by f1assistance; 01-06-2020 at 05:25 AM.
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  9. #29
    Untangle Ninja f1assistance's Avatar
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    Illusions pattern cracking, light leveled up escaping, the awakening is happening. Hold on, the ride your time here now, a shift of force tsunami brings, confusion's ignorance dispelled with a brilliance blinding. Massive cataclysm's false is broken, a deep breath drawn before the storm.
    Vanguard Untangle...because nothing's worse than doing nothing!
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by f1assistance View Post
    Idiocracy! So much of what's really going on about our digital world is completely missed in this discussion. Personal computing really never was about your convenience, but another way to manage the people which has been going on for millennium. If we don't realize our binary world is about data collection and surveillance by now, and tasked by all Giant Tech, the State, and business of size, then you're un-awake. Sky-knight (below) touch on it briefly, but also exposed their intentional slight-of-hand missed by most. Microsoft [and others] have publicly stated (constantly telling us what they do) you are licensed to use their software and services as they deem appropriate with its "purchase" or install, but in the end it is and always will be Microsoft's. They've also publicly stated they will surveil and collect whatever they think necessary to curtail 'hate speak" (whatever that is) in real time, in ALL their products and services offered. Let that sink in... (this last one (hate) is supposed to comfort the majority of today's 'awoke' herd).
    The logical and inevitable end of this argument is to opt out of the binary world, and many have indeed followed the argument to that end. Others, including you and me, have not. And?
    f1assistance likes this.

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