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  1. #1
    Untangler
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    Default Is there any point to untangle at home with HTTPS the norm?

    In the past year I noticed that adblock app totally stopped working. And SPAM app never worked and yesterday I managed to download a file with a virus. luckily my PC quarantined it before any harm done.

    Checking this today I went to phishing.testcatagory.com and sure enough the virus was 'successfully' downloaded.

    So my question is, I am paying each month for a product I thought was doing all these cool things, but in fact its not doing them at all, I am just as exposed as if I had stuck with my ISP supplied router.

    I'm not bitter or anything, its 5 bucks a month, its enterprise really yadyyady.

    As untangle seems to require that I 'man in the middle' every one of the devices on my network, many of which I cannot do that to, I guess that my time with untangle has come to an end?

    My only comment is the apps lull you into a false sense of security, you install them and it says they are on and you go about your day thinking you are done. But in fact they are not doing anything at all, requiring some pretty detailed changes to your network and any device entering that network.

    Perhaps this should be reviewed because my ad blocker tells me it found 0 adds in the last 30 days and viruses etc are free to download even though that green on button is lit up across the board.

  2. #2
    Untangle Ninja
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    Many have made the argument that next generation firewalls are obsolete, that perimeter defenses of any sort are obsolete, and they've been making that argument for some time. The cloud is the future, the argument goes. There must be some merit to the argument since it can't be dismissed off hand.

    The part I don't get is why it's a binary argument. If A finds X obsolete in a given use case, then X is in fact deemed without a point across the vast majority of use cases. If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work. Any well-it-does-work-for-me counterargument is often dismissed as a corner case or atypical use case or something like that.

    In the end, I think everyone has to make the choice that fits them best. I don't think there can be (not yet anyway) any one-size-fits-all answer.

  3. #3
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't agree that UTMs are dead, but application of them to networks requires more creativity than in the past. Untangle at home is a powerful tool, Web Filter works fine without breaking into SSL, and provides far more control than any DNS based filter... which the anti-UTM crowd usually use.

    But, then again Untangle is a real UTM (operates at layer 7), and most products out there than call themselves a UTM aren't really a UTM (they operate at layer 2 or 3, and pretend to poke at 7). So Untangle is a bit of a special case.

    The bulk of the problem lies in general ignorance. People see fancy words like "Spam Blocker", don't bother to read the wiki on the module and then wonder why it doesn't work. Untangle is a Swiss Army Knife of relatively easily used tools. Do you use the can opener to cut off a zip tie? No... But Untangle provides you that can opener, and most people try to use it to remove said zip tie at least once.
    Last edited by sky-knight; 04-29-2020 at 07:23 AM.
    f1assistance likes this.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  4. #4
    Untangle Ninja f1assistance's Avatar
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    I shake my head... It clearly appears the collective is winning the race to the bottom and their 'wish' for a digital utopia (i.e., Idiocracy) has fully arrived. In the US, freely giving away all 4A rights solved this, correct?
    Those who know, know TNO should always affix, regardless of applied sentinel, and those who think, understand common sense will always be lacking. Feed them cake, and require its consumption. D'oh!
    Vanguard Untangle...because nothing's worse than doing nothing!
    -------
    2, Pentium (R) Dual-Core CPU E5300 @ 2.60GHz 2599.968, 2089.96MB RAM
    And building #7 didn't kill itself!

  5. #5
    Untangle Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    The bulk of the problem lies in general ignorance.
    This is a double-edged sword. The inside joke in my family (well, to me it's funny ) is the abundance of fancy big name DSLRs which are all but cemented onto auto, because of "general ignorance" but also because auto just works. If large swaths of the public can't be bothered to change default passwords on the networked hardware they buy, the idea of home users reading the Untangle wiki takes a hit.

    Here, we aren't convinced catering to the home crowd is a good idea, so we have to accept some of the responsibility for general ignorance and the resulting questions about Untangle's suitability for home use.

  6. #6
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Graf View Post
    This is a double-edged sword. The inside joke in my family (well, to me it's funny ) is the abundance of fancy big name DSLRs which are all but cemented onto auto, because of "general ignorance" but also because auto just works. If large swaths of the public can't be bothered to change default passwords on the networked hardware they buy, the idea of home users reading the Untangle wiki takes a hit.

    Here, we aren't convinced catering to the home crowd is a good idea, so we have to accept some of the responsibility for general ignorance and the resulting questions about Untangle's suitability for home use.
    Exactly, Untangle's HomePro sub says what its for right on the tin... It's for Professionals, that happen to be at home. The name itself implies the responsibility the purchaser takes on themselves. Untangle itself as a platform, as easy and powerful as it is... isn't intended for home use.

    And does a professional not RTFM? Commonly... but who's at fault for that? The product or the "professional"? I think it's a very large concession already to have a friendly forum to ask boneheaded questions in, without getting treated like a bonehead. Even if we each probably deserve such treatment from time to time.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  7. #7
    Untangler
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    I fully understand and I am not having one of those linux newbie hissy fits. I think what I am getting at is, if untangle requires that I have to make changes to all devices coming onto the network, then I need to accept as cool as it is to have, its not actually any use in a home environment.

    To that end I guess I will move on. But its been a fantastic product, I do love the web filter and that works flawlessly so far as I can tell, just a shame the modules that in a home environment virus/spam etc need such a level expertise to make them do anything.

    And yes everyone here has been very friendly

  8. #8
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    But you don't have to make those changes. SSL inspector provides greater granularity, but it is not mandated.

    I don't use it anywhere, it causes too many problems. Web Filter does just fine on its own. I do block QUIC however.
    f1assistance likes this.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

  9. #9
    Untangle Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky-knight View Post
    Exactly, Untangle's HomePro sub says what its for right on the tin... It's for Professionals, that happen to be at home. The name itself implies the responsibility the purchaser takes on themselves. Untangle itself as a platform, as easy and powerful as it is... isn't intended for home use.

    And does a professional not RTFM? Commonly... but who's at fault for that? The product or the "professional"? I think it's a very large concession already to have a friendly forum to ask boneheaded questions in, without getting treated like a bonehead. Even if we each probably deserve such treatment from time to time.
    Of course. In this topic, no less. Silly me.

    This feels like the local Walmart with arrows on the floor. Walk in the wrong direction and, poof. I feel a long vacation coming on...

  10. #10
    Untangle Ninja sky-knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Graf View Post
    Of course. In this topic, no less. Silly me.

    This feels like the local Walmart with arrows on the floor. Walk in the wrong direction and, poof. I feel a long vacation coming on...
    Stupid rationality making us all look bad...

    And vacation? Isn't that what COVID did to us all already? :P
    f1assistance likes this.
    Rob Sandling, BS:SWE, MCP
    NexgenAppliances.com
    Phone: 866-794-8879 x201
    Email: support@nexgenappliances.com

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